Fast and Slow Freelancing with Amy Romer

SEASON 7, EPISODE 10

If you’ve been listening to The Writers’ Co-op since the first few seasons, you’ve heard us say: The magic is in the mix of work you get. Slower work – work that is recurring, or on a longer contract or time period – can make us feel both steady and fulfilled. But sometimes, we just need money now. That’s where fast freelancing comes in.

Ideally, you have a mix of both in your business. Too much fast work, and you might burn out. Too much slow work and that could build resentment or put you in a financially precarious position.

In this episode, Wudan talks with Amy Romer.

Amy is a visual journalist and fact-checker based in Vancouver, Canada. She covers environmental and indigenous issues for Reuters, The Walrus, The Guardian and The Globe and Mail, among many others. She is a National Geographic Explorer and a recipient of the Global Reporting Centre’s visual storytelling grant.

Amy and Wudan discuss tactics for setting yourself up well for both fast and slow work, the mental and emotional toll of each type of work, and more.

Full Transcript Below:

Wudan Yan- Hey everyone! Welcome back to the Writers' Co-op. This is Wudan Yan. I am your host and executive producer. Before we dig into today's episode, there's some housekeeping. So first of all, this is the last episode of this season. It has really flown by. I have so many ideas for the coming season that I'm still in the process of developing it at this point. I don't want to announce anything yet and potentially shoot myself in the foot. But if you want to stay in touch, please sign up for our newsletter at Substack, which is thewriterscoop.substack.com. Importantly, I want to thank all the subscribers on Patreon who have made the season possible. If you've noticed, the episodes have been blessedly ad free because of their contributions. Thanks to every person who came to an event, purchased a resource or a course, or just told their freelance pals about the Writers' Co-op. It helps the show in more ways than you can think of. And it allows me to pay my team and continue to thoughtfully develop ideas for the show. Okay, on to the main event. So by now, you've probably heard me and countless others say that it's really important to diversify your freelance business in terms of services offered or the number of clients you have. Today, I want to add in another layer of this diversity by looking at freelancing from like a fast and a slow perspective. This has been coming up a lot in my coaching practice over the years. Clients I've worked with will be stoked that they're booking the projects and clients that they want, only to realize that sometimes they want to take on more because they actually have a slightly higher capacity for work. But what is that type of work you can add on when your capacity expands that will allow you to boost your income, for instance? This is where I start talking about fast work. These are projects you can add to your work queue as you need. You can tap a client and be like, hey, can I help take anything off your plate. Maybe you are a contributing editor for a client. They don't need you all the time, but they assign you projects as they come. For me I consider magazine fact-checking one of my fast gigs. If I have an opening in a given month for a one-off fact-checking project, I will tap my clients and they more often than not will have work to give me. Fast work comes at you, well, fast. And, in a best case scenario, fast work would also pay pretty quickly. On the other hand, slow work is stuff that takes a while to get out. Or takes a while to pay out. Or just work that you're committed to for a long period of time, such as producing a show for a year. Journalism projects that go in depth on a topic area and take months or years to report out falls under this category, book projects, editing jobs in which you're on a retainer. And when these projects come to an end, usually there's another slow ramp up to another project of this type. It can sometimes take a while to find these projects. True in most cases, but not all. Ideally, you'll have a mix of fast work in your freelance business. Too much fast work and you might burn out. Too much slow work and that could build resentment or financial insecurity, especially if you have lots of eggs in one basket. I wanted to have a conversation about how fast and slow work could be a huge consideration when mapping out your freelance business and how to build this mix intentionally when thinking about your work and services. My cohost today is Amy Romer, a visual journalist and fact-checker based in Vancouver, Canada. She covers environmental and indigenous issues for Reuters, The Walrus, The Guardian, The Globe and Mail, among many others. She is a National Geographic Explorer and a recipient of the Global Reporting Center's visual storytelling grant. I am excited to dig into fast and slow freelancing with her. And we're going to talk about tactics to set yourself up well for both the mental and emotional toll of each type of work and so much more. Before we get into my conversation with Amy, I wanted to talk about how critical it is at this time, or any time, to be in community with others. And not just any community, there are many out there, but one that is psychologically safe, which allows you to ask questions and fully participate free of judgment. If you love the ethos of the Writers' Co-op and you're self employed, you'll probably want to be a part of our community too. There are abundant conversations on there about this kind of slow and fast work we're going to talk about today. The Writers Co-op's community is organized in Slack. And when you join as an All-Access member for just $9 a month, you will be able to get in on that. Okay, let's go back to the main program. Here's Amy. Hi, Amy. Welcome to the Writers' Co-op. It's a pleasure to have you here.

Amy Romer- Thank you, Wudan. It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.

Wudan- Absolutely. I'm excited to talk about fast and slow freelancing. But before we dive into that, why don't you answer our canned guest question, which is: What brought you to freelancing? And what work are you doing right now?

Amy- I moved to Canada just at the end of 2016. And so it was kind of like a big, new, scary place. I didn't have a network here. And so when I first landed, I worked for a couple of years in a photography gallery. And my plan was always to eventually go freelance, but to use that originally full-time role as an opportunity to just kind of ease myself in and get to know the photojournalism landscape. And after about a year and a half, I kind of negotiated going down part-time at the gallery, so that I could spend a couple of days trying to get some pictures in and trying to meet some editors and do the networking thing. And within about a year, I was able to quit my job fully, and go kind of dive straight into full-time freelancing. And that's something that I think I've always wanted to do, without really knowing what freelancing was or could be. Like many of us, we're still, as we are doing it, we're figuring out what it could be. And what it is now might be different to what it is going to be in a couple of years' time. It's constantly evolving. But to fast forward to now, what am I working on? It's a weird time of year, actually, July, it's my quietest time of year. And so it means that I get to kind of catch up on other things. But right now I am writing a kind of longer piece for an industry magazine, which I'm taking my time on. I'm writing a couple blog posts a month about video production for a video production platform. They're one of my anchor clients. So those are the pieces that are kind of getting me through the month. I'm seeing a direct pay for the time that I'm doing. I also did a guest lecture for a university and I'm catching up on a bunch of editing photography work for a nonprofit anchor client that I'm working with. It is a quiet time for me, so a lot of what I've been doing has been tying the loose ends. Like last week, I finished two final reports for two grants that I'm wrapping up. I currently kind of in the pitching stage of one of my grant stories. I'm also kind of putting together a copy for a website for a grant that I'm working on—another one grant that I working on. And I was really pleased to get an application for a new grant, a Pulitzer reporting grant last week, which I've been working on for the past couple of months. So it's it's that kind of like quiet time to reflect on like some of those longer pieces, some of those slower pieces. And just to make sure that those money earning faster pieces are there to support that.

Wudan- I like this a lot. And it also sounds like you're planting new seeds too, for other projects down the line.

Amy- Exactly. Yeah, I think that it was those slower projects, or I should say, it was a slower project that led me to quit my my part-time job. It was my first National Geographic grant that kind of made me do the snap decision to really go for it and quit my job and see, like, if I could make the freelancing thing work. And ever since then, it's been quite naturally for me to just make sure that I have one of those more long-term projects, at least one, kind of on the back burner. And— because they're slow, they're typically a year long or sometimes two years long. And so the beauty of that is you have all the flexibility to be working on it when you're not super busy with day-to-day stuff. Yeah, I'm definitely planting some seeds for what's next. And it feels good to wrap some of these projects up too, because they're lovely and, and I love working on them. But they do drag on so, yeah, feels good to get them done and move on.

Wudan- Yeah, that's relatable and to be clear, your training is as a multimedia journalist, is that correct?

Amy- Yeah. My training's in photojournalism. So yeah, multimedia is where it's at.

Wudan- I just wanted to put a pin on that because before we talk about fast and slow, because there are so many ways to be a multimedia journalist—in video and post production and taking photos and kind of being a stringer on an assignment or taking a daily you know, photo assignment and also writing too. Like, I think that gives a lot of opportunity to experiment and play with different types of fast and slow work.

Amy- Yeah, it does, and honestly no two commissions are necessarily ever the same. Like, it's kind of the beauty of what I'm able to do, is to move between these complementary spaces. And interestingly, you know, the longer I'm I've been freelancing for, the more writing I'm doing. Just me personally, and the kind of stories that I choose tend to, ironically, not be super visual, which I can't help what I'm interested in. I'd love the challenge of making things visual that aren't necessarily typically visual, I guess. But it does mean that a lot of my stories rely on words. And you know, I can be a writer at the same time. And, and I guess I love when I can bring those things together. And you know, because I do think that words work so beautifully with images. And, and sadly, you know, in the industry that we're in now in journalism, there's just not often the space for both done well. So I mean, finding the commissions can be tricky, but at least I have the skills to offer.

Wudan- That makes sense. And as you were describing kind of what's on the table right now, and what you just wrapped up, I'm hearing, you know, I'm placing each of those in my brain as slow or fast work. For instance, the blog posts sound—actually, blog posts can be fast or slow, depending on your relationship with that client. But like teaching something that's a one-off can be a fast one-time thing, for instance. So what proportion of fast and slow do you think you like at a given time?

Amy- For me, I mean, just those blog posts I'm doing right now, for me is like fast work. The industry mag piece is a slow piece—lots of interviews. But the blog pieces don't have any interviews. It's about photography and video. I can just kind of pump it out really quickly. But for me, typically, typically, I don't want too many slow pieces at one go, or I tend to kind of falter is that I do have too many pieces going on at the wrong because you don't that it's so competitive, you don't know what you're going to get, or what collaborations are going to be put to you. And it has been that this year, I've had too many, too many things to be working on. But it's the fast work really, that kind of allows me to do that slower work, because it's they they're typically the things that pay me well. And whether it's the blog posts, or whether it's a quick photo assignment, a lot of my photography clients, like I see that as fast work, because it's typically a half day, I go away, shoot, I come back, and then I often don't need to edit and actually deliver the photos for like, three weeks. So you know, for example, like I had my mom visiting from the UK for a couple of weeks, and I was able to earn like $4,000, just like in a couple of days from photoshoots that I am now editing. So like, the beauty of that is that there's just a lot of flexibility. I don't have to, you know, I'm not committed to like being signed a piece that I need to write and hand in in a week's time. It's slower in delivery, but fast in execution, which is the best of both worlds, I guess,

Wudan- How do you view fast and slow work from like a mental health perspective? And kind of how does it tailor to your personal needs?

Amy- That's really interesting. Yeah, I think that the slower pieces that I work on, is like where my heart is. And what I find very kind of easy to—like, I think I'm a slow person. I process slowly, I think deeply, but I process slowly and in depth. So those stories just like seemed very natural for me. But if I, for example, if I were to get a call from Reuters to go, like do a piece of photojournalism, like tomorrow, which happens, I get a lot a lot of anxiety. Even though they're, like, usually very easy, you know, we just need a portrait of this person who's going to be in this place at this time. I find the fast work, just I think, because there's just a lot more pressure to get it done. And there's just less time to mess up, I guess. So yeah, for me, the fast work is not as easy in a weird way. I don't know if it's like that for others. But for me, I'd much prefer to be given like a month to do something, or year to do something, or a couple of weeks. But anything that's like less than a week for me is, like, okay, I have to kind of get those butterflies and deal with them.

Wudan- Yeah, I really have to check my own capacity at a given moment to be like, can I take this really urgent thing on for the next week, even when the money is really good? It's kind of like, what else do I have going on? I just really need to check in with myself.

Amy- Yeah. And I guess that's like the beauty of that slow work, because that happens to me all the time. And usually, you know, all that slow work, because there's no actual deadline on it, or if there is a deadline, it's very movable. It means that it just gets pushed down and down and down my list of priorities because you know, I always want to make that extra $500 or $1,000, or whatever it is. And that's actually something I'm currently kind of battling myself with like saying no, like, no, I am at capacity, and I don't need that. Like I'm over what I need this month. I don't need to do this. I think that's something that we will find challenging. But yeah, like, that is to say that the beauty of working fast and slow is that it gives you that leeway to be able to shift focus on the fast if you want and need to.

Wudan- Definitely so how do you incorporate this kind of fast-slow thinking when you plan out, say, like, a year of freelancing?

Amy- Yeah, yeah, I think like I said, it's like the slow stuff acts is kind of, I don't know, I'm hungry. I'm thinking of like, if you're making a sandwich, and the first thing you do is like spread the hummus on the bread, like, the slow stuff is the hummus that's just like, always going to be in sandwich, if you're me. And then you can choose like other things to put on top. But it's like always there. And like, for me, ideas for slow work, it just doesn't end. It's not something I'm usually having to seek out or like, find. The ideas are just kind of always there, partly because there's just not a lot of money in journalism to be doing long form work. And so it often means for me, applying to a grant to be able to do the story that I'd like, to give the story I want to tell justice. So that's always happening. And I can kind of look, you know, at the, at the end of the year, I'll kind of look at the next year and say, okay, like, what are the stories I want to continue working on next year? Can I do that just by pitching the editorial, or do I need to apply for money to make the travel happen, and for the expenses, all those kinds of things. I plan them out a year ahead. And then for the fast work, it just kind of happens throughout the year. I don't necessarily plan that out a year ahead. I do have a bunch of retainer clients that I know, you know, every quarter, I'm going to be making X amount of money from those clients. And then some months are busier than others. And then I can kind of figure out the rest of the months as and when they approach. I also do have a thing where, because I work a lot with nonprofits and organizations who have like a federal budget or whatever, they often need to spend their money before the end of the fiscal year.

Wudan- Yeah.

Amy- My plate is like overfilled between January and end of March. And that's been consistent for the past couple of years. And honestly, like I earned more than half of my annual like goal in the first three months of this year because of that. And that's not to say that I completed all of that work before the end of March, but I had checks in the post. They just need to get rid of that money. So that kind of works out nicely, because it's at the beginning of the year, I have this kind of like cushion of work that I need to do. And then as it comes to later in the spring, I can kind of pick up what else I need to along the way.

Wudan- Yeah, it also sounds like you've worked with these clients for a while, or you seem to really understand them, which also helps you plan.

Amy- Yeah, I think so like, and I don't kind of give this enough credit, but I do think that working, you know, for the first couple of years of being in Canada, I worked for a nonprofit. And so I have kind of worked on the inside of that. And that's not to say it's the kind of nonprofits—you know, it's a photography gallery, this is not the kind of client that I work with now as a writer and photographer. But I do, I kind of understand how their marketing departments work and their development departments, which is basically like where the money is. And so I feel like when I'm making those connections with those departments of other nonprofits or, or government organizations, even, I kind of understand the layout. There are clients that I've worked with for a few years now. And they do continue to use me so, you know, fingers crossed, that continues.

Wudan- And how do you use—I mean, the nonprofit clients are kind of a good example of knowing that a chunk of money will come in in the first quarter of a year. But how else do you use fast and slow work to, say, financially plan for a year?

Amy- For example, the beginning of this year, or I guess it was from March to June, I applied for a grant to work with schools actually, to deliver storytelling classes about, well, I should say visual storytelling classes. So this is like a BC government grant. It's called artists in the classroom. So you could be a writer, or you could be a poet, or you could be a photographer, or whoever you are. And you pitch for money, to kind of elevate a classroom, to give something to that classroom that they wouldn't be able to do without you being there. So I spoke to a school and figured it out. I basically learned that if you apply for this grant, you have a 70% chance of success.

Wudan- Oh, wow.

Amy- Pretty good odds.

Wudan- Yeah, yeah, really.

Amy- You know, and it's up to $10,000. So I went for that. And it was an opportunity to bring one of the grants I've wrapped up into the classroom to kind of get some feedback from the kids. Like, what do they think about visual storytelling and visually-lead stories? And we did a bunch of activities, and we went on some field trips locally. And I brought other storytellers into the classroom to meet them. And it was really fun. That, for me, gave three months of weekly work through this grant that I knew I was doing like last September. So again, that kind of complements, like—I like to have the beginning of the year, like the first two quarters kind of lined up. And I don't even know whether you would call that fast or slow work. It's slow in terms of—applying for grants are so arduous.

Wudan- Yes.

Amy- And the nice thing about this grant was that they recognize that, and allow you to pay yourself for the kind of administrative work that you do in applying for the grant. But the work itself, like going into a school once a week for an hour, is super easy, and doesn't take any of my brain capacity. And so for me, that's like fast work. And the checks come in, like ahead of time. Like, I'm already paid. I just go in and like speak to the kids and give them some tips. And I'm on my way. Like, it's pretty, like, low stress. So a few things like that—the grant work, stuff like that. I'm kind of like a regular on university guest lectures. And then just like, my blog work, and like I do some fact-checking. And if there's ever a quiet time, it's the kind of content writing and fact-checking that I'll lean on, to kind of give a little top up for that month. But that doesn't really happen like too far in advance, that will be kind of like a month before or two months before I'll, I'll do a little whip round on my emails and and lighten some things up, if I need to.

Wudan- Yeah, I want to start talking about how to find this fast versus slow work. I mean, in my business, I find that the strategies vary. A lot of the slow work that I get assigned, are things that I pitch, or that I have a long, lengthy conversation with a production network or somebody else about a project that's going to span for many months up to a year. But for fast work, all I want to do really is to get on a client's roster, which can happen really quickly. So I'm just curious what it's like for you, and how do your strategies differ in landing your fast clients versus slow clients?

Amy- Yeah, I think pretty similar. Like, my slow clients are really they're just grant agencies, which can be many things. But for the fast clients, it's about getting onto their roster. And it takes time, at first, I would say, to maybe build those relationships. But once they're there, then it's a quick email, you know, hey, you know, I've got a project that I can take on in the next two months, is there anything you need help with? But it doesn't take up much of my time. On one of my tabs, I always have four spreadsheets that are always kind of open. And one of them is like a potential income stream spreadsheet. And there are tabs within that spreadsheet like editorial, like if I'm thinking about a story, and I need to pitch someone, I've got a list of editorials in different kinds of spaces. But I've also got like a nonprofit tab. And I've got like a businesses tab. And because, you know, I'm often like walking downtown, and I see an ad for something. And I've like never heard of that organization before. And it sounds kind of interesting. And I like the ad. So I'll just like put it onto my spreadsheet. And then at some point, I'll like maybe make an introduction and follow up. So I'd say that it's often when I'm not seeking the work necessarily that I'm writing those kind of introductions. And I just do them as and when I feel like I have the time to do them. Because what I found is that, you know, you make that introduction, and it's probably six months later, or maybe even more than a year later that they reach back out to you and like have something for you. So there's no like special timing for when those introductions are made. But they, it definitely kind of like pays off when you need it to. And then if I'm in a time where like, I'm worried about the lack of work that I have coming up, you know, I'll reach out to a pretty targeted group of either retainer clients or clients that I enjoyed working with last year. Just to give them a heads up that I'm free. And you know, usually that works out.

Wudan- Yeah, that's super smart. And I love your idea of the spreadsheet. One thing I noticed in my own coaching practice and just observing how other freelancers work, and think about getting new clients, is that many of them don't think of the idea of like getting on somebody's roster, but that is how so many clients actually work. Like agencies want to know which freelance writers they can tap in different expertise or it's not realistic for even a magazine to just rely on three fact-checkers all the time, because those fact checkers can be tied up with other projects. Or if you need a stringer in Vancouver, and the four people on your list are all, again, booked. Like, it makes sense for a news organization or any client to kind of like, have a rolling list of people who they can trust and call on. And I think so many freelancers don't want to get on a roster, they want an assignment. And we tend to forget that getting on the roster will get you an assignment.

Amy- Yeah, and I guess, like, I guess, if you kind of see it as, like, rather than getting on a roster, but just like building a relationship with someone.

Wudan- Mhm. That too.

Amy- And then as soon as, you know, as soon as you've got the green light, you know, all thanks—whether they explicitly say, you know, I've put you on the roster or, you know, thanks, like, there's no project right now. But check back in or whatever, like, I take that as fact. Like, I will check back in with you, like, you've made a commitment to me and like, whether you mean it or not, I'm going to be back in touch. And so, you know, they would go on to my, you know, onto my spreadsheet as like, reach back out, or, you know, you can just like make a note that this is definitely someone I'm going to reach back out to, because they're expecting me to, because they told me to. I think that it's the slow game, really. And that, you know, fast work can still be part of a slow game, whether that's like, the relationship building or— and, you know, if you reach out, and there's no project, that doesn't—I think it's just a lot of it is about not taking it personally, and not feeling like they're never going to want to work with me because, like, they don't want to work with me now. They're just like a million things that go on in an organization. And it doesn't mean that they don't want to work with you. So it's like striking that balance of being persistent, but not too pushy. All those things.

Wudan- Yes, that makes sense. And you can follow up,

Amy- Yeah.

Wudan- Without being either of those things.

Amy- Exactly, exactly.

Wudan- So how do you know it's time to tap the fast work button? Like, how far in advance are usually able to foresee the need for that kind of work?

Amy- One of the other four of those spreadsheets that I have open all the time is a Gantt chart of projects. So I can see what I'm doing right now. And I actually kind of built that Gantt chart as a way of not taking on too much when I was feeling a little bit overwhelmed, just to kind of like break down what it was that I was actually doing, and what were the deadlines and—Because for me, because I do multiple things, I am a writer, but I'm also a photographer, I also do some education work within those two specialisms. Those are very different kind of brain capacities for me, and I can do many of them if it's not too much of one thing. And so it's also helpful to be like, okay, in a week's time, I can see on this Gantt chart that I'm going to be at a loose end with some writing work that I'm having in this very day, or whatever it is. So maybe I can think about taking on another writing assignment. Or maybe I can, like, hit up an editor for some fact-checking. And so it's helpful. I look at that. I also look at, I have like an income spreadsheet, that tells me, like, what's coming in every month. So I'm able to, like, look ahead and be like, you know, I know, like for me right now, I'm actually doing fine in Q4, but Q3 is like looking a little bit slow. Like who can I look at to get some more work for that quarter? And when I'm seeing that something's slow, it could be a matter of going on to that potential income streams and finding somebody, somebody new, but it's more likely that I'm going to reach out to retainer clients. And I would like to do that, you know, too, a couple of months ahead. Sometimes I'm just not that organized. And like, I, you know, do you want me to be doing some writing like next month? And, you know, usually I'm lucky. And I think, for me, like, because each quarter really doesn't—like I earned basically my annual goal, like in the first half of this year. And I know that July is slow. I do find it stressful when it's slow. But I'm also trying to exercise the thought of maybe it's okay, and like it's summer. And I'd like to do things that are outside. And maybe I just don't seek work for the next couple of months. Maybe that's okay, because I know that in September, I'm busy again. And maybe that's fine. And it is fine. Like financially, it is fine. Like that's why I have a goal every year. But it's amazing how difficult it is to actually accept that into action. To actually give yourself that, like, press the stop button. Yes. So I'm still seeking the fast work, because if I get it then great, but I guess I'm in a nice position that if I don't, you know if it doesn't come my way I'm not super stressed.

Wudan- One thing I find myself encountering a lot is that usually the slow work that I'm taking on, are projects that I am researching and authoring, like there's a lot of ownership around it. And if I do too much of that, it actually really emotionally burns me out. And one way I conceptualize fast work is like being on somebody else's bandwagon. And sometimes I can take on a lot of that, especially when I'm coming off of a season of doing a lot of things that are just me, me me. How do you feel about that?

Amy- Yeah, for sure you're so right. Like this slow kind of long-term project is all-encompassing, and you are conceptualizing the project. You are researching the project. Finding the leads. Like, speaking to people. Being creative. Like, it's all of it. And often that's like, before you even got it commissioned. Like, this is just to do the work, in my case, like a reporting grant is for doing the reporting. That doesn't necessarily mean that anyone's going to publish it. So that's kind of stressful, too. But I can't do it. And it's why it's so easy to procrastinate over it, because it's a lot of energy. And if you have that other like, quick piece to do, then it's so easy just to go and do the quick piece. But I have on my schedule each day, I block out one hour slots for projects. And I'll always kind of put one hour for one of these longer term projects. Sometimes, like right now, I've got two hours dedicated to that, because I have the time to. But it's actually really difficult to get into the headspace where you can sit down and spend that time on them. And sometimes you just can't. Sometimes you just can't do it. I find that challenging. And especially because these longer projects don't have a deadline. Like I think that's sometimes part of the problem. They're like, emotionally involved. And they're kind of in the bag, like, they're long term, you don't have to, like you've got the money for it. Or like, in the case of a grant, it's easy to just kind of, to prioritize other things ahead of them. But there's always a point where you kind of get into the flow of it. Whether it's, you know, the research. I love the research, like when I get into it, I love the research, and I love the reporting. And I love the—you know, I love all of the bits of it. But it's a lot. I think, because it's a lot, I think you have to kind of step back, just to take a breath and to get some kind of objectivity again, and to not look at it—like I'm kind of someone that's known for doing a shoot, for example, and not looking at my pictures for a couple of days, because I just need to process like being there and what happened before I started looking and start thinking about like, which picture is working and which is telling the story, like, I just need some space. I guess that goes back to kind of me identifying as a slow person. But yeah, like at every stage, whether it's like, between research and reporting, or reporting and writing, writing and pitching like, it's a lot. And I think it requires breaks and you know, breaks can be perfect for taking on other kinds of work and other speeds of work.

Wudan- One other thought I've had, that I'm reflecting on a lot these days is how I'm getting my fast work. And a lot of how I build my client base of being on somebody's roster is because somebody found my slow work. How do you see those two interacting in your own business?

Amy- Yeah, totally, definitely. I think often, that is the slow work that gets you the fast work. It's definitely not the other way around, I don't think. For example, in my email signature, I have, like, many links for you to click on. I use an email tracker, which is kind of creepy, maybe. With the email tracker, you can just like see, when someone has opened your email, clicked on it, lots of times, or forwarded it, and you can see what links people have clicked on, which means that it's like really handy having a lot of links in your email signature. And for me, you know, I've got my website, I've got my Instagram, Twitter, latest news, which is basically my linktree. And then I have National Geographic Explorer. By far, like, the most clicked on piece is the National Geographic Explorer.

Wudan- Oh, fascinating.

Amy- Yeah. And like, for me, it's just like, I don't know. It's just like not—I don't know, I think I just have a problem with even the term National Geographic Explorer, like I hate it. And so I'm always kind of like disappointed in people when that's what they've clicked on. But it is kind of fascinating and it does just like go to show that it's those slower pieces or those associations with the granting agency that people are impressed by. And people are interested in you because of, so yeah. Like, I do think that these slower pieces, as time-draining as they are, they are important for you know, for that other work that you're gonna get in the future that might be fast or slow.

Wudan- Everyone just clicks on my Twitter. And I'm like, if you wanted actual information about me, maybe don't read my bad opinions. But—

Amy- Yeah, I wish people would just click on my website more often, you know. Like, well, actually, it's kind of old and I need to update it. But yeah, it's kind of interesting what people will click on.

Amy, have you had times in your business where you felt the balance between fast and slow work wasn't where you wanted it to be? And what did you do about it?

Amy- Yeah, definitely. In both way. I think I probably always have too many slow things going on. But I seem to navigate it pretty well. You know, I think most people don't notice how slow you're being because only you know how long something takes, in a weird way. So that's kind of like, I can deal with that. I think the scary part is like having too many small projects, or like fast projects on the go. And that's when things can become really, like, fuzzy and you become really overwhelmed. And that's like when the burnout can creep in. I haven't had that recently. And I think it's just like, for me, it's about injecting structure into what I'm doing. Which is why, you know, I think it was actually after having too much like, giving myself too much fast work, that I made this like Gantt chart that is now kind of like a Bible to me, to see like, okay, I have like four writing projects on at once like, this is not goodl Like, my brain can't handle that. But I can definitely take on like three photo projects at once. Like, that's totally fine for me. So it's not about like the amount of work. I don't necessarily have too much work. It's what the work is that can be a problem. And I need to like, flesh out and just make sure I'm spreading work out as I need to.

Wudan- Yeah, I think a layer on top of fast and slow is this concept of like, ease and effort—

Amy- Yeah

Wudan- —that a certain project takes, and I think it's also clear to make that explicit, because I do something very similar planning-wise too, especially with fact-checking projects. Like sometimes there's a book coming in, there's a podcast coming in and fact-checking. I mean, you know, this as a fellow fact-checker is that you are so in the minutiae, and my brain only has so much capacity to tease over small facts and go down the necessary rabbit holes, before it is overwhelmed with facts. So that is something I really have to plan out for in advance too. I mean, it's medium effort for me, but it is a very specific type of mental load.

Amy- Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think it just takes experience to really know. And the proper like, with fact-checking is like really depends on the piece, like, as well. Like, some are so heavy and some are not. And like, you don't necessarily know. And so yeah, I like to just make sure that I do have the full, full capacity that I need to do that work, even though it's not emotionally draining. But it is a certain amount of work and a certain amount, a lot of detail. Same with, you know, writing for me is the biggest one, just like I just really don't like working on multiple writing projects at once. That said, I'm doing that right now. But one is just like very easy for me. And the other is way more thoughtful. So again, it's like it just really depends, like, on the type of thing that you're working on. And then you know, the hard bit is then being like, okay, I'm going to say no. Because that's really hard to do. So it's just a lot of, a lot of understanding your own capacity and being able to trust that. I think we don't trust ourselves as much as we should.

Wudan- Agreed. Amy, what kind of advice do you have for folks earlier in their careers who are thinking about planning their freelance business, from this fast and slow perspective that we're talking about?

Amy- Yeah, I think honestly, the biggest thing for me is— to kind of pass down and mistakes that I've made myself—is to just not be afraid to want more for what you're doing. Because something might be fast for you. But if you're not being paid enough for it, it kind of becomes slow, because you've wasted, you know, it's not just the time that it took to produce that work, but it's the time that you've lost finding work that's actually going to allow you to live. So I think it's—like each step is so important, you know, figuring out, like what is it that you need to live as a human and to thrive? And then like, once you know that, like, where is your true value? And how can you do that in the most efficient way? Like what do those pieces look like? For me, it's writing about photography. I can do it with my eyes closed. And so those pieces are very fruitful for me. But if I'm writing, you know, with a piece, a journalism piece, about a complicated issue, then I really have to have the time and space to do that. And kind of understand that, you know, it's probably not going to earn me as much money, because it's going to take me more time. I think it's just, you know, a lot of it is experience and knowing how much time things are going to take. And so, like, for me, it's super important to track how many hours anything takes me. So that I know like, I kind of, when I get given an assignment, or have a writing project, I estimate how long I think it's going to take me and then I track how long it's actually going to take me. And then I can see at the end, like how much I actually made per hour. And then I can either do it again, or say no, I'm not doing that. It's not gonna serve me. It's a whole puzzle that needs to be solved.

Wudan- It is. And I like the ethos of trying a lot of different things to figure out what feels easy to you or not. Like, I know some people can just do internet research and write a blog post real fast. But I'm really slow with internet research, because it gives me an opportunity to like dwaddle and go down rabbit holes. But if you tell me to interview somebody for half an hour, and then write a 500 word blog, I can do that in an hour. Like it's just so fascinating. Because we all work so differently. And I think you're right, it is a matter of experience and just trying things out, and noticing, and then putting it into like one of these buckets for future reference. Yeah, it's

Amy- Yeah, it's just a lot of, kind of documenting, like what you're doing and how long it's taking you. Even like, for me, it's the same with photography. It's like what like, a portrait shoot for me is much quicker than, you know a large piece because editing is so much faster. It's always just like knowing how long something's going to take you in actual time. But you know, emotionally as well, like, that's kind of a different—you know, we have to measure that differently. I think for me, like the fact that I can be a writer, and be a fact-checker and be a photographer does give me a lot of flexibility in the kinds of work that I can take on and the parts of my brain that get used one time.

Yeah, like the diversity of services also lends itself to the diversity of fast and slow work.

Amy- Yeah, absolutely.

Wudan- Well, Amy, it's been a pleasure to talk about this with you. Thank you so much.

Amy- Yeah, no problem. Thank you for having me.

Wudan- Thanks so much to Amy for coming on the show. You can follow her at Amy Romer on Twitter, Amy.romer on Instagram and otherwise on Amyromer.com. All-Access Patreon members will get a worksheet this month to help think through the balance of fast and slow work. And I will talk to y'all soon, and see you next season. Thanks so much for listening to the Writers Co-op. If you've enjoyed our episodes, please rate, review and subscribe on listening platform of your choice. These reviews help more listeners discover us, you can join us on Patreon at an All-Access member level at patreon.com/TWCpod. This gets you access to discount codes for events, for other objects online and our safe and inclusive online Slack community. The show is hosted by me, Wudan Yan. Our producer is Margaret Osborne and our editor is Susan Valot.