Inflection Points

SEASON 3, EPISODE 6:

Building a freelance career can feel directionless; there are no set rules about where to go. But Jenni and Wudan have both built their own careers (and helped other people craft theirs) by pivoting when they hit moments of confusion or frustration. We’re calling these moments inflection points. An inflection is a slight change in tone, and every person will encounter many inflection points in their freelance business (and in their life!) over time. Jenni's biggest inflection points have occurred because of the pandemic and having a child, but she also faced subtle changes when her interests and values changed. Wudan hit a wall when she realized that she couldn't run two businesses during a pandemic and avoid burn out. In all of these cases, an adjustment was necessary. And the adjustments were subtle -- but over time, they add up.

In this episode, Jenni and Wudan outline the kinds of inflection points you might face, and they also talk about how to work through them. Of course, coaching is one option for dealing with these moments -- but there are lots of other ways to work through a pivot. Hitting these blocks is normal but the important thing is that you adjust course when they occur -- as they say, what got us here won’t get us there! Sticking with something that isn’t working for you can lead to burnout, too. This week, along with the episode, Patreon members get access to a worksheet that will help them identify the next right thing (which is a whole lot easier than picking a long-term, gigantic career direction), and a second worksheet about planning experiments. You can join our membership program any time. As always, we’d love to hear about your successful and failed experiments on Twitter or in our email inbox. And if you haven’t yet, please subscribe to TWC or leave a review.

Full Transcript Below:

J- Hi, everyone, and welcome to The Writers' Co-op.

W- We're a business podcast for freelance writers everywhere.

J- And we are your co-hosts. I'm Jenni. 

W- And I'm Wudan. 

J- This week we are going to add a new line to our podcast description, which is that we're building a community of freelancers who aspire to the anti-hustle culture. Rather than focusing on the churn and burn cycle of freelancing, we want you to find a sustainable workflow that allows you to live the life that you want.

W- We've both been thinking a lot about hustle culture lately, because we're both stepping out of it in a pretty big way.

J- Yeah, we are. This summer has been a summer of Jenni and Wudan are out of the office. It's great.

W- Oh my god, every time I look at our shared Google Calendar, I love to see how much time we are both taking off. It really is great. And stepping away has given me, at least, a lot of energy to put into building The Writers' Co-op related things. It's just amazing how much energy I get from spending time away from my computer.

J- Yeah, same. Wudan, what has been your best summer vacation so far?

W- Hawaii. My husband and I just spent a week in Kauai hiking, soaking up the sun, diving, all the things that you would do on an island. It was one of the more normal vacations I've had in a really long time. What about you, Jenni?

J- I'm so jealous. I love Hawaii. For me, I think honestly, living in Bend, Oregon is like living inside of a constant vacation. There's just so much to do here. But my favorite adventure so far has been exploring a lava tube cave near our house and I've also been taking a lot of half days to go hiking, especially on the scenic cascade lakes byway here. It's just a really beautiful place to live. And I hope I can spend the rest of the summer working pretty much part time.

W- I love that. Also, lava tubes are just a great place to cool off. Okay Jenni, so what are we talking about today? And who's sponsoring today's episode.

J- Yeah, this week promotional support for The Writers' Co-op comes from the Creative Nonfiction Podcast. It is now in its ninth year, which is nuts and it's hosted by Brendan O'Meara. CNF Pod brings together the best of narrative journalism, memoir, essay, poetry and documentary film to talk about the art and craft of telling true stories. We love listening to CNF Pod. Both of us have been guests. We were recently on it together. And I just think Brendan is really fantastic. He's had awesome guests like Patrick Radden Keefe and Susan Orlean and Chuck Klosterman, you know, also us. So you can subscribe to that podcast wherever you are listening to this podcast.

W- Yeah, love Brendon and love CNF Pod. He is a really smart interviewer

J- Agreed. Every time we sit down with them, I feel like I learn a lot. He recently had us both on, like I said, to talk about building this podcast together. And we'll link to that episode in the show notes. But it was super fun. So on to today's episode, and fun times, we're actually just going to talk to you just the two of us. It's a solo episode, if you will.

W- Yeah, we are. We're taking a break from coaching to discuss something that we think is actually really important. And that's inflection points.

J- Yeah, you might notice as you listen to this season's coaching episodes that most of the writers we meet with are at an inflection point in their career. So what we mean by that is they've hit a wall or they want something to change, they need to make some decisions, because they're looking for some sort of adjustment in their business. An inflection is actually defined as a change in pitch or tone. So it's not like a total overhaul. But it's a slight shift that changes the long term direction of your career.

W- Right. And what we want to talk about today is two things: first, common inflection points you may encounter in your freelance career, and secondly, some tools you can use to work through those moments on your own when you're encountering these inflection points. Most inflection points happen when something changes in your life. So either you're faced with an external challenge...

J- yeah, like the pandemic?

W- Right. Or sometimes your life circumstances change. So you want something new. That's more of an internal change. Either of those things can cause you to feel stuck and frustrated and confused about what you want.

J- Yeah. And I think when you try to push through that feeling of being stuck and frustrated, and just keep doing the same thing versus pivoting, you end up getting really burnt out. It's like the work starts to chafe. 

W- Totally. Jenni, want to start with storytime? 

J- Of course I do. But why don't you start, Wudan? I want to hear about an inflection point that you've experienced in the past few years of running your freelance business.

W- That's a huge question. So I have had so many inflection points, many big, many small. The first that comes to mind immediately is actually when we started this podcast. Jenni, I might actually get a little emotional talking about this because I think that actually really lit a fire under my butt. I was doing a lot of the things we talked about on the podcast like negotiating, pushing for higher rates, go down the line. But when we made The Writers' Co-op official, I was like, wow, I'm not just a freelance writer anymore. I am a two-time business owner. And that change in mindset and mentality has been huge, and has led me on a path where I'm really keen on cracking the code of how to run to businesses, and do journalism. That's not a model of freelancing I heard about a lot when I was starting out, I feel like I was entering a whole new world.

J- I love this. I think it's really common for us as freelance writers to believe that there's a limited set of services that we can offer, right? Like, I write, I edit, I do research, I fact check. And I can totally see how adding on an entire additional business venture seems really foreign. I think for me, too, it was this big moment of realizing like, oh, there's a lot more here. And that's really scary and really exciting. It sounds like you have also been looking for support on that front, too, right?

W- Totally. I talked about this a bit before, but I brought on a business coach a few months ago, I'm still working with her on troubleshooting small things, and streamlining my business so I can make the monies without spending all my energy all over the board. And it feels like I'm learning how to run an agency in some ways. Jenni, what about you? Tell us a story.

J- So I think I too, have had a lot of inflection points. There was one about six months into building my freelance business. I will talk about that one, I think, because it is something I see a lot of people run into when I'm coaching. So I had really just been like, doing whatever work came my way, right? I was making a lot of money. I think I was making $15,000 a month. I had a co-working space. I was beating my former salary. But realistically, I wasn't 100% happy. Or I guess I'll rephrase that, like I was happy with working for myself. I was happy with the flexibility of freelancing, with my schedule, with how much I was making. But I wasn't really super lit up about the specific projects. And I see this happen to a lot of people. It's like, oh, okay, I'm making this thing work, which is, let's be honest, a massive victory to make your freelance business work. But then you hit a moment where you're like, oh, okay, I think I need to be more choosy in order for this to be sustainable. So what happened is I actually backed off a little. So I started saying no to projects, and I did that knowing I was gonna see a little bit of a decrease in my revenue. But I said no to things that weren't aligned with my mission. And I had set my mission at the beginning as writing about health and wellness in a way that would help people live more fulfilling lives. That's not really my tagline if my business anymore, but it was at the time. And so I use it as sort of a guideline, right? Like, if a project wasn't aligned with that it had to pay really well. Or it had to be interesting for another reason in order to be worth spending time on it. So as you all know, if you've listened to the podcast, I'm a big Yes, girl. So it was actually a huge deal to start saying no. When I look back at some of my writing, my journaling from around that time, I felt really unsteady. And I had a lot of anxiety. I knew that the risk would probably pay off and that being aligned with my mission was really the only thing that would stop me from burning out, which had happened in all my past jobs. I didn't want it to happen again. But it was a challenging time, I think.

W- Yeah, honestly, all freelancing is this constant check in with yourself. And I think it's great that you did that, made the necessary changes, and took that risk to be more choosy.

J- Yeah, I'll say I've also had a lot of other inflection points about external things, like we said, like having a kid and the pandemic. These external forces really made me rethink everything about my priorities. And I will say, I also think I'm in the midst of an inflection point right now with considering how to integrate coaching into my business in a different way, and slow my writing roll. So yeah, these things are happening all the time.

W- The key here is that inflection points are about changes. The realization that you need a change can be internal or often there's something external happening to you. In other words, a pandemic maybe, that forces you to shift.

J- Exactly. Change is the only constant. Isn't that what *they* say? 

W- Capital "They", haha.

J- Yes. But you know, after things change, you're faced with a decision. Do you stay in the situation? Do you keep the client? Do you keep the service? Do you keep the schedule? Those are the big questions, I think, that we often find ourselves asking alone when we hit these moments of change.

W- Totally. What are some of the common inflection points that we're seeing in coaching sessions?

J- This is a good question. So the first one that comes to mind for me is that the market changes. I think we saw this with COVID a little bit in media and you know, media is also ever changing. But, you know, a publication shuts down. That means there's less need for freelancers to write about a certain topic, or maybe a bunch of people have learned a new skill and all of a sudden the market is saturated. So you're getting offered lower rates for something that you've been doing for a while. A good example of this is the personal finance industry. I know a lot of freelancers in that space who started out getting paid like $1,000 per blog and now they're being offered three or $400. And it's because so many people have gotten into that space, there's more competition, there's more publications. This is market change, right? More publications covering this. More writers writing about it. Less budget to go around.

W- Agreed. I see that one a lot too. And also, just with the boom of the internet, freelance writers on the whole are getting paid less than they did a decade or two ago. It sucks and feels pretty powerless. It's like I'm doing what I've always done, but getting lower offers, or fewer responses to my marketing or network. What gives? It's a moment of reckoning, right?

J- Yeah, absolutely. An inflection point. So what else, Wudan? What else do you see when you're working with folks?

W- I see a lot of people who end up with changing interests. I think a lot of us get into this creative field because we're curious. And we like to learn. So we get excited to write on a certain topic or to create a certain kind of content. But over time, or interests or brand changes as our lives change.

J- Yeah, this one really resonates with me. Like I said, I started my business writing about health and wellness. And I was training to become a yoga teacher at the time. So I was super fascinated by all things fitness. Honestly, now, like I could care less about a lot of that stuff. My personal interests have really shifted. And now I want to write about different things. If I was still trying to write about the things that I wanted to write about when I started my business, I would be very frustrated.

W- Right. If you keep doing those things that you no longer care about, it's gonna suck. For the first few years of my career, I felt like I was always trying to break into a new beat. First, it was science and health reporting, then I moved overseas. So it was international reporting. And then I wanted to do more magazine writing around human rights and justice. My interests have constantly shifted, now that I think of it. And now I consider myself more of a generalist. I also think along with this, your values can just change.

J- Yeah, this happens a lot. In fact, I think it should happen. You know, our values are changeable, values being what we care about. And maybe before you cared about money, and prestige, because of your life situation. And now you care about impact, or maybe flexibility was really important to you. But now you're really craving stability, right? Maybe you like structure. Now you want to build something of your own, like these things change over time.

W- That's all really natural, of course, and it also requires you to shift your business to realign with your new priorities. Here's a cool thing to me about freelancing though, you can say, Oh, the grass looks a little bit greener on the other side. Let me experiment with that and check it out.

J- Yeah, love a good experiment. I honestly think it's why I keep freelancing, like there's a sense of agency where you can just try something that looks exciting,

W- Right. Any other inflection points, you want to highlight, Jenni?

J- Yeah, like I alluded to earlier, another one is that your life situation changes. So the world around you changes. Maybe like me, you have a kid, or maybe you move, maybe you become a caretaker for someone in your family. And in some way, this change usually means that your capacity is limited, or that it's opening up again after a period of time of being limited. So when our capacity changes, our schedule changes. And then we have more or less energy, right? So we often need to change things in our business to accommodate that energy.

W- It feels like many of us are experiencing this one now that the pandemic is moving into this new iteration of allowing us to be back in the world in some ways. I know for me, the pandemic has showed me my true capacity for work by, in essence, bringing me to extreme burnout.

J- And I think these external changes often affect how we work and what we want to do. It's like a new normal, right? I definitely think I'm experiencing that one right now.

W- One last one I can think of is that sometimes your skills change. You become an expert on something because you've created a kind of story the same way for years, or you've been on the same beat over and over. I think for me, this makes the work field dull. I get bored. And usually that's a sign that I need to expand my reach and try to offer other services that are more challenging, or more highly paid, or I need to write about a new topic. For instance, a few months ago, I announced on my Twitter that I wasn't going to write more about COVID. And lo and behold, I have not done that since.

J- I love it. I see this one a lot with clients who have earned a new certification too or, you know, in some way grown whatever skill they have. They have these new skills and they want to use and explore them. And they make sense. If you're not using them, it's going to be frustrating. So Wudan, how do you know when you're at an inflection point?

W- I think I'm unusual in the sense that I'm pretty aware of my thoughts at all times. I'm very hyper aware. I think that's all I really can say. And you know, I also want to point out that inflection points don't have to be huge. They don't all require fanfare and balloons and at tweet that says some personal news with an emoji. I know I'm at an inflection point where I think to myself, Something's got to give, even if it's the tiniest thing like cutting the cord with just one client. That feeling of being slightly unsettled and needing an adjustment is one of the signs for me. What about you, Jenni?

J- Yeah, that idea of Something's got to give really resonates for me. I start to feel like I don't fit in, or I'm trapped in the thing that I've made. Like I often say to my husband, I'm trapped in a monster of my own making. Like, I get really frustrated with things that I used to enjoy. And I find myself actually feeling really envious over other people's work, which is usually a signal to me that I want what they have, and I'm unsatisfied with my current setup. I think it's actually usually that envy is sort of an arrow pointing towards where I want to shift. I think that actually inflection point signals for me are a lot like the signals of burnout. Because if I don't make a change, I will burn out. So it's like, this isn't working for me. I hate it. I hate that it's not working for me. And then I get all anxious, and even pesky little emails start to become super frustrating. My friend Dana calls this bitch eating crackers. I think this is really funny. But it's like someone starts to do one thing that annoys you, and then everything they do annoys you, like, even if it's just the way they eat a cracker, like I get this with my work and my clients. And I will say I also get this very specific knot in my left shoulder that comes from clenching my teeth, which is a sign that I'm gritting my teeth through something that I don't want to be doing. So I actually often have my clients make a list of these signs so that they can see burnout coming. And also so they notice when it's like oh, okay, it's about to be a moment of adjustment, like Something's got to give, like you said, Wudan.

W- I think paying attention to the signs of stress and how they show up in your body is real. And that's also something that I've taken from over a decade of yoga. The one other thing I do notice when I need a change is that I want to escape, mostly into the woods for me, but that is usually a sign of burnout, not so much I'm moving towards an inflection point.

J- Yeah, there's something in this for me, too, that I've had to get used to with not feeling guilty for wanting to change. Like, for a long time I think I felt like maybe I was flawed because my interests changed so often. Like, why can't I just stay the course? But in working with people, and especially creative people, I've realized that it is perfectly normal to want something new. And it doesn't mean the old thing didn't work while it worked. Right? What got you here won't get you there. I'm slowly learning that adjustments are actually smart. Like they're good business practice, not shameful. Yeah, that one, though, has taken a lot of therapy to understand.

W- Yeah, it's not either-or. And I'm going to go off script and say, this expectation that we should do things that don't require a lot of change, I think is partly how we were socialized by people who are a bit older, perhaps even our parents generation, who haven't had so many changes, right? And so running your own freelance business really upends that idea. And honestly, I find it liberating, but it's also very confusing when we think about "traditional careers."

J- Yeah, I think both of us have parents who have worked the same jobs for many, many years. And so that was the expectation, right? And so you're absolutely right, that this really upends that idea. And it has taken me a long time to not feel guilty for wanting to do something new. And I think that's a good segue into this final question, which is, what should we do when we run into these moments of feeling like it's time to make a change?

W- Yes, One option is to hire or find a coach, I hired one to help me figure out how to manage two businesses and grow my career, because I was feeling really stuck earlier this year.

J- Yeah, that's a good option when you're feeling alone in the need for change. I think another option that sort of solves that similar need is to find a group of people to circle up with to talk through these challenges with. There are a lot of studies about social support being really key in helping us through big life transitions. And for me, it's been the key to helping my freelance business move in an agile manner is to have people around me saying like, yeah, yeah, you can do it.

W- Yeah, 100%. Coaches are spendy. And they add such big value, because paying $1,000 might help you make you know, tens of thousands of dollars with less work and less stress. But the great thing is that community is free humans naturally want to connect with others. And you know, during this pandemic, that online community has been keeping me afloat. Some of the smaller Slack groups I'm in with like-minded freelance writers have been a really great place to talk through all of this.

J- Yeah, agreed. I'm not an online chat person, but I actually have been this year and I think these groups have helped me feel like there are more options available out there, right? Like it helps to see other people thriving in their businesses by doing different things. And I think even our Patreon group pod squads, which is group coaching, there's four or five freelancers in every group, those have been important for me. I've really benefited from them. I know we're moderating these groups. But just hearing everybody talk about their challenges and their wins helps me feel less alone. On this note, I will also say something that helps me a lot when I'm hitting a moment where I think like, Ooh, something's got to give, is that I often need to get input during times of transition. So this happens in community, I think. But then I also read books and listen to podcasts. What I want to do is be able to think expansively about all the options, right? Like, not just the ones I know about, like what other services are possible? I've been doing this with coaching: what kind of business models exist, right? I appreciate following people who ask reflective questions on social media, you know, people like Brene Brown, Glennon Doyle, they have podcasts. Listening to different podcasts, like the ones we mention on this podcast, like Is This Working and Emerging Form, all of these places are just nice spaces for hearing about wins and losses and options, right? And that's not an ad, by the way, I really do just like, listen to these podcasts. So Wudan, do you do this sort of thing of doing research and investigating what's possible? Yeah,

W- Yeah. I am such a sponge for learning from other people. Everyone has such unique experiences and similar experiences, that there's always something to learn from someone else. I really do you believe that.

J- Yeah, I'm going to call this the sponge phase. I really like that. So for me, after the sponge phase, there's usually an introspective space that I need to be in. So I will get inspiration. But then I need to turn inward and figure out what *I* want. Because ultimately, that's what is most important. Just because something worked for somebody else doesn't mean it is right for me.

W- What do you do to process those thoughts, Jenni?

J- I need to move usually my body a lot in yoga, they often say exhaust the body to quiet the mind. For me, that's very true, because my anxious brain is like rattling around. And so calming it down by moving really helps. So hiking, running, being outdoors, doing yoga. And then I do a lot of actually like journaling, which I've done since I was a kid, I do morning pages. If you, you know, have read The Artist's Way, you may have that practice. It's just three pages of writing every morning, and I find a lot of usefulness in just like brain dumping whatever's in my head on the page. It is usually several weeks to a month of full muddle. Like, you know, it doesn't make sense. It's not pretty. It's not very clear. But eventually, when I look back, I can see a throughline of where I think I want to go. This is actually the reason why we started making worksheets for The Writers' Co-op at the beginning is because that is how my brain processes these things. I journal, ask questions, build frameworks, make checklists, experiment, you get it. It's how I get through those moments of doubt. What about you? How do you process those, Wudan?

W- I need to be away from my screen. Some of the best places I've journaled from are campsites on backpacking trips, or just truly exhausting days where I can put what I need to on the page. I'm not that big of a journaler. But it absolutely helps to put my thoughts out there.

J- Yeah, I think the key thing here is that most people have this similar process, right? Turn outward, be a sponge. Turn inward, reflect. But the methods are different for everyone. So you know, steal our methods as needed. But I would think of it as an experiment and may take some tries to see what is the right way for you to process the need for change.

W- Yeah, I love trying stuff. A big thing this year so far, has just been trying stuff.

J- Yeah. Tell me about your experiments. You know this is my favorite. What have some of your favorite ones been?

W- Oh, I mean, they all involve setting new boundaries around my business. So I love boundary-setting. I don't know, maybe that's probably super obvious. So the ones that have helped the most are not doing any more speaking engagements for free. It's not worth it to me. And the other one is not taking any calls on Friday. Also removing the expectation that I'm going to be answering emails on Friday. Fridays are me days. They are, you know, mountain days where I'm out hiking or deep work days completely.

J- I love this. And I think the way of framing them as an experiment is great, because if it doesn't work, you can change it next month. Tell me about failed experiments. Have any of them not worked?

W- Ooh. I've always wanted to be somebody who's really good at taking on a ton of easy work, but my brain just really isn't in it. I don't find a lot of fulfillment in easy work. It sucks. I like to work hard. And I think that's the hardest thing for me to reckon with. But I really do find myself dragging on easy work. It's really shocking. What about you, Jenni?

J- Oh my god. So many failed experiments. Like, do you want to list? 

W- Yeah, actually. 

J- Okay, so at one point, I decided that I would offer podcast transcription services. I emailed a few people. Turns out the pay's terrible. So that was a no. At one point I had a dream of integrating yoga with storytelling through workshops, maybe doing some kind of writing and yoga events. That one never materialized. I tossed around the idea of working as a managing editor as part of my work mix for about 20 hours a week. Did one round of that. Turns out, I hated it really deeply. I just don't love being in a company's Slack workflow. It feels too much like my old jobs. I have spent a lot of time reducing my work hours, as y'all know, only to take on too much work, and then have to actually use my days off to work. There's so much failure, you know. What else? I talked last season about doing a bunch of interviews with researchers to start digging into a new beat. But it took doing those interviews and doing some pitching for me to realize that, hey, I don't actually want to do journalism. So, you know, I usually actually know pretty quickly when an experiment is a fail. I think that is an inflection point too, like Okay, it's time to drop this and go back to square one. It feels to me again, like a very smart business practice to, you know, if something doesn't work, at least I cut it off really quickly and don't take it with me into the future. Right? If it's not working, it's gone.

W- The last thing I think is, for me time away from work gets me perspective. It helps me to see what's working and what's not, even my experiments.

J- Totally. We are both coming off long chunks of vacation at the moment. And my best thoughts usually come on days, like, 8 to 10 in a vacation, I think. I need a week to decompress. And then I get very clear on my direction. And I am very aware of what things I'm excited about. Because I'm so relaxed, and I'm very calm. And so a lot of this perspective stuff for me, I think is about—I talk about this a lot in my coaching sessions—setting the context. Like, putting myself in a situation where I will be relaxed and calm so that I can make decisions from that mindset instead of this, like, high-stress, fear or scarcity mindset. I think that better results come when I'm on vacation.

W- Yeah, I also really love tiring myself out and seeing what thoughts come up then. Because that's me at the end of my mental and physical rope. What are my needs in that moment?

J- Yeah, Damon Brown said in one of our webinars a few months ago that restrictions are actually good. And I've been thinking about that a lot. He said they press you and then your priorities become super obvious, which I think is sort of what you're thinking about Wudan, right? Like the being at the end of your mental and physical rope, you're gonna be very clear on what matters. The other thing I want to mention here, I think, is that you can just pick one next right thing. Like you don't have to think a million steps in the future, and you don't have to throw out your whole business model. Wudan said that, right? Like inflection points don't have to be a momentous thing. You don't have to make a plan for the rest of your career. It's just finding one new thing that's exciting and swapping out one old thing that's not serving you anymore.

W- Yeah, these changes don't have to be drastic. And they also do not have to last forever.

J- Yeah.

W- Or even like three months, right? 

J- Yeah, totally. And I think I always wish they were. Like, I'm very addicted to like, Big Giant Change. Haircut, massive trip, business overhaul. But I will say after three years of that being my instinct, small changes are more sustainable. They're more fitting. They're smarter. That's why the word "inflection" is good for this episode, I think, just a very small shift in tone.

W- Okay, so to review with regards to what we've discussed this episode, you may experience inflection points when the world changes, when your life situation changes, when the market changes, and when your values and interests change. During those moments, you'll want to adjust your business to accommodate these new conditions.

J- Yeah, and there are many ways to work through inflection points. You can hire a coach, bring together a group of freelancers or friends to discuss what you're going through, you can go out and read and get insights from books and podcasts and documentaries. It is a good reminder that there are lots of options out there for what to do and what you could veer towards next.

W- And after you turn outward, it's important to go the opposite direction. Turn inward, so you can figure out what option is right for you next. I like what you said, Jenni, about just picking one next right thing to try.

J- Yep. And then you experiment. I even like to set deadlines for my experiments. So I typically will say "I'll try this for one month." And then at the end of the month is when I'm going to make a judgement. So it keeps me from waffling on the decision for those three or four weeks in between. And if, at the end of the month, I decide it's not good: Bye. But if it's feeling good, I keep doing it. I think having that sort of permission to not judge it for a few weeks can be really useful.

W- Also, figure out how to get yourself into a headspace where you can get in touch with how you feel and then use those insights to make a decision.

J- I like to ask my coaching clients, how does excited feel? How does burned out feel? How do you feel when you found a project that you're just like totally stoked about and by that I mean like what feelings come up in your brain, but also how does your body respond. Like shoulders up, shoulders down, nauseated stomach, your feet are jiggling, you feel calm? These are signs and signals that guide us towards what we want and not what we should do or could do. So we will include a little worksheet about that as part of this episode.

W- I love it. We'll also include a worksheet on how to plan experiments. It will give you space to list out some possible new things to try.

J- That's my favorite. I am excited about that. So as we finish this episode up, I also think it's just worth saying, again, that inflection points are super normal. There's no shame in having tried something and then letting it go. Because the things we offer in our businesses don't have to work forever. We are people who change, right? It's actually why a lot of companies, especially tech companies, rotate people through different jobs really frequently, because variety and change help us grow and actually help us produce better work. So we work for ourselves, obviously, as freelancers, and that means we have to promote ourselves or rotate ourselves through new scenarios, if you will,

W- Right. Or even hire ourselves for new jobs.

J- Yep, exactly. Well, I think that does it, Wudan.

W- Yeah, I think we're good. It's time for us to get back to work. As always, you know where to find us on Twitter, email, or hanging out with our members in Patreon and Slack. We will see you soon. 

J- Bye, Wudan.

W- Bye, Jenni.

J-  Season three of The Writers' Co-op is made possible by you, our listeners. This season is hosted by me, Jenni Gritters and my co-host, Wudan Yan. And the podcast would not be possible without the help of our producer, Jen Monnier and our editor, Susan Valot.