WTF Am I Doing?
EPISODE 1:
What does it take to become a freelance writer or editor, and how do you know if this career path is right for you? In this episode, co-hosts Jenni Gritters and Wudan Yan explain their career trajectories, as well as what they've learned from building successful freelance writing and editing businesses during their collective 12+ years of work. If you're thinking about becoming a freelance writer, this episode will give you a jumping off point, including questions to consider and key first steps toward success.
If you like what you heard in this episode, you can sign up for the Writers' Co-op All-Access membership on Patreon. To correspond with this episode, you'll get access to a worksheet that will help you plan your business, including defining your values, picking the services you'll offer, and creating copy for your website.
You should also check out Alexandra Cavoulacos' book, The New Rules of Work, which will help you think about what you value in a workplace. If you're going to create your own dream job as a freelancer, you have to learn to be a good manager for yourself! This book is a great place to start.
The Writers’ Co-op is hosted by Jenni Gritters and Wudan Yan, and produced by Susan Valot. Season 1 is made possible by a grant from the National Science Writers’ Association.
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Full Transcript Below:
J- Hello, and welcome to The Writer’s Co-op, a business podcast for freelance writers everywhere
W - We are your co-hosts! I am Wudan Yan
J- And I’m Jenni Gritters
W- Thank you so so much for joining for our first episode.
J- This is so exciting!
W- We’re going to kick off our first season by starting sequentially and talking a little about -- drumroll -- how to start freelancing. We’ll share our stories about how we got into freelancing, and also give you some specific questions to work through to figure out if freelancing is a good fit for you right now.
J - Yeah, this is a really good idea. People are always asking me about why I like freelancing, and what they need to do first if they want to get started. And honestly, there’s no right answer to that question. As much as we might look like we’ve got it all figured out now, we don’t! There are things I’m still figuring out or want to figure out.
W - Trial by fire, all the way.
J - But I think we have some good advice about what we wish we knew when we got started.
W - And we should talk about that first! Okay, Jenni. Want to tell us about how you got into freelancing.
J- I tried freelancing for the first time in 2017 after quitting my FT media job because of burn out, but it didn’t work because my husband was between jobs and health insurance was expensive and I wasn’t making enough, so I got a FT job again (even though I really liked the lifestyle!). Then, in 2018, about a year later, I got laid off from my FT job when they eliminated my whole team. I applied to a bunch of FT jobs but also knew I had the option to freelance, because a few people had offered me projects and I’d done it before and like it. I interviewed for those FT jobs and I just… didn’t want them. As my husband said, the media jobs were “same shit different toilet”-- poor management, being overworked, not making a lot. Then I went to Hawaii and sat on the beach and realized I had to try to make it work on my own as an experiment
My therapist at the time was super into helping me figure out how to “create my own dream job” as she put it, so she had me make a business plan. I realized I needed to make it “official” if I wanted to take freelancing seriously, since it had always been a side hustle for me -- hence business name, LLC, logo, website, etc Once I had all that, I reached out to like… everyone I knew to tell them I was free for work. I did a lot of coffee dates and info interviews here in Seattle to try to make connections.
W -- Say more about that. Because I think a lot of people listening might not live in a media centre, like NYC or Boston or DC. Who were you reaching out to in Seattle, and how did you decide who you were looking for?
J - I ended up talking to lots of friends of friends-- it turns out, there are some media people working here, and I asked them all what they were doing, and who they were writing for. I’m in a lot of PNW-based Facebook job boards for writers. And also, most of my clients aren’t based in Seattle. That’s the beauty of remote work! You don’t have to be in a certain place.
My first projects were: writing SEO guides for a meditation website, building product reviews for an outdoor gear brand, and converting/ editing web content for a global health company in downtown Seattle. Two of those brands are based in Seattle, actually. I realized pretty quickly what I didn’t like doing and what I loved doing. I swapped out that content migration gig and started taking on more writing work, prompted by people I’d worked with in the past. My past jobs were editor jobs but I always knew I wanted to write, and suddenly I had time to do it-- but I was scared! I remember my first feature assignment about instagram influencers for Experience Mag, I got super emotional when it went live because it was the kind of reporting I ACTUALLY wanted to be doing
Anyway, I got to August (my biz launched in June) and realized I wanted to keep going. It wasn’t an experiment anymore because it was working.
W - What happened during those two months that made you think, this could work?
J - Well, I was making enough money. That was the first thing. Like, more money than I made at my previous job, which was one of my goals. And also, I liked the creative variety of the work. I also loved the freedom to manage my own schedule. It felt like clean work, low drama. I also was burnt out on journalism but I felt like I could trust myself. In many ways, I felt more secure and creatively motivated than I had in years. AND it was paying my bills.
Okay, that’s my story, what about you?
W: Oh boy. Yeah, I would say I was also somehow thrust into this world of freelancing almost six years ago. At the time, I was in a PhD for Cancer Biology - an entirely different world -- and I knew that I was incapable of focusing on a project for six years, and was about to quit.
To make a long story short, I knew I didn’t want to be in academia. I took a pretty good hard look at how I was spending my free time and a lot of it was spent with my nose deep into longform magazine stories and narrative nonfiction science books, not in papers that I needed to read for class. I started to reevaluate what inspired me. So leading up to the day that I thought I’d tell my adviser that I was about to jump ship, I did a lot of research: I met up with other freelancers who had what looked like a really successful career, and learned how to ‘hack my way’ into journalism.
J: What do you mean?
W: I mean, I didn’t want to go back to school. For a PhD program, we are paid to be there. If I got a degree in science writing or journalism, I’d have to pay my way, and I wasn’t sure if I’d be able to make back the money as a working professional. SO… I applied for a bunch of internships, Nautilus, a science magazine in NYC, took me on. It was there that I learned how to fact check, essentially the basics of reporting. After that internship, I really had to figure things out. I had a full time tutoring job for about a year and it gave me a steady, bimonthly paycheck, health insurance, but also gave me the time I needed to build out my portfolio and to pitch stories that I was really psyched about. Fact-checking was a great way to get my foot in the door and get some of my very early clips.
J: Yeah, so many writers I know got started as copy editors, fact checkers, or editorial assistants. I was an assistant at my first media job! I learned a ton.
W: Yeah. The only thing was that I didn’t really get a chance to think about the business side of things starting out. Because at the same time, I was trying to learn the craft. But then I just continued to freelance because I’d look at what seemed to be ‘entry level jobs’ at a bunch of publications, and they’d want 3-5 years of experience. I didn’t know how to get that experience if I didn’t freelance.
J: I hate that! I feel like media job descriptions can be so vague.
W: Yes, and at the time I didn’t have the confidence of a white man with a patchy beard so I didn’t dare apply. Anyway. It’s interesting because here we both are, trying to figure out what to tell people they should do if they’re gonna go freelance, when we were both thrust into this world and had to really quickly figure it out.
J: I think that’s how it happens for most people, to be honest. And you also stuck with it.
W: Yeah. The first few months were hard. Really really hard. Because I wasn’t even close to making $2000 a month, and was living in San Francisco for a while, where things weren’t exactly cheap. But as time went on, it got easier. I mean, as I got to that 3 to 5 years of experience point, people started to know who I was, what I was capable of, and I started getting assignments rather than having to pitch them. And I was applying to grants, and getting them. And I wasn’t making a ton of money, but I was able to pay my bills and live on it. Plus, I was taking on a really big range of projects and types of work, and was able to do things like, go hiking during the middle of the week or go to the gym at 2pm.
J: The freelance dream!
W: But yeah. You hear a lot of advice about freelancing that marches to the beat of: have six months of savings in your bank account before you make the leap!
J: I think both of our stories are a testament to the fact that sometimes, you just can’t plan well for the shift to freelancing at all. Maybe it’s layoffs, or you’re burnt out and desperate to leave, or your partner needs to move, or whatever… There are so many cases where suddenly, this just becomes your best option.
W: Right. Or you look at an anonymous crowdsourced list of ‘real media salaries’ and think that the best way to up your income is to be in control of it is to go full on freelance.
J: FULL FRONTAL FREELANCE.
W: I think it makes sense to ask: What are one or two things that you do now as a freelancer that you didn’t when you first started? Non-conventional wisdom things.
J: That’s a good question.
W: For me, I literally feel like I didn’t know anything. It was a lot of flailing. Everyone was telling me, “you need clips!” Well, what if getting those clips didn’t pay, or didn’t pay enough?
J: For me, I knew I needed to make money right away. Like, I had just been laid off and I didn’t have a big savings account. So I took some of the first things that came my way and I signed the contracts without even thinking about them. I know it was necessary, but looking back I wish that I’d been able to learn to say no earlier on to things that didn’t work for me, and I wish I’d known how to recognize red flags. Two months wasn’t forever, but doing that web conversion/ editing work was such a drag, and it was hourly, and the relationship took a while to get out of because of my contract. I wasn’t really making enough and I was working A LOT.
W: On my part, I wish I knew how to better define my rates in the beginning. You know, like, okay, I’ll write a web story for $300, but I might spend an entire week reporting and writing it. I didn’t think about this too much when I was full-time tutoring because I already had a full-time job and my priority was building my portfolio. And for a while I was very, “I’ll take whatever assignment I get that doesn’t pay an insultingly low rate.”
J: Agreed, I was totally in the same boat. I was more focused on “making the freelance business work” than producing quality work at the beginning, too. Even now, I’m terrible at saying no but i’m learning that quality is always more important to me, and saying no is a power move.
Thinking back on all of this, what is your advice for people who are just getting started with freelance writing? What did you do well?
W: First, I’d say you have to figure out your values. That’ll tell you if freelancing is right for you.
J: Yes, I love that one! I read this amazing book when I got started by the founder of the career website, The Muse, called The New Rules of Work-- I’ll link to it in the show notes-- and the whole first section is about figuring out your values. Not just what you think freelancing should be like, but what you care about. For me, one of my biggest values is freedom of time. I love to be able to choose when I do something, and I don’t like being tied to someone else’s schedule. I also need creative challenges. Freelancing offers both, which is why I like it.
W: It’s like: What do you care about in your life? What do you value when you’re working?
J: Some other common values you hear around work are things like stability, or a social atmosphere, or the ability to be active (and not sit at a computer). Maybe you like being able to check things off your to do list every day, or maybe you like long-term projects that take a while to complete. Maybe you prefer a job that’s all organization-focused, or maybe you like creating super creative products. Maybe you like routine every day or maybe, like me, you like having the freedom to adjust your days according to your moods. All of those are values.
What are some of your work values, Wudan?
W: Ooof. I’m a big sucker for passion projects. I think it’s the one thing keeping me from making more money! But I need to be working on a few things I care about every single year, that are really advancing my portfolio. I value rotating stability™ - which is basically being able to pay my bills from fact checking. And because I fact-check for so many different publications, I figure that someone will have to give me some work. I also value a good balance of being creative with being analytical. I think that’s why writing and fact-checking are like yin and yang for me.
J: Do you think there are any particular qualities that you have to have, if you want to become a freelancer? Or things that make this style of work a better fit?
W: I mean, if you don’t like structure but are really good at creating structure for yourself, this is ideal. If you’re really good at dealing with rejection, that’s a pretty important quality to have because it’s easy to take that personally. It’s hard to step away from that and be like, okay, I can still make the story or project (or whatever you’re pitching) happen. And I guess also just being super organized, Speaker 2 (20:13): she goes for more or less anything, but especially freelancing.
J: Agreed-- I think anyone can make this work, but it’s definitely a better fit for people who enjoy the hustle. Like, I am very motivated by not knowing where my next month’s paycheck is coming from. It inspires me to take action because I’m competitive. If that kind of instability shuts you down, this might not be a good fit for you. I also think you have to be pretty resilient, because projects end and clients shift their priorities, and you gotta go with the flow.
This is where values come in too, I think. Once you know your values, you can figure how you want to set up your freelance life so it works for you. Like, I knew I wanted to work less when I left my full time media job, and I really valued spending time away from my keyboard and getting outdoors, so I set up a schedule where I worked about four days per week, and scheduled weekly hikes. That made the job worth it right away. If you know what you want, you can build it. If that sounds confusing, become an all-access Writers’ Co-op member and you’ll get a worksheet in your newsletter this week that’ll help you think about this question!
W: Okay, I think question two is: What are you good at??
J: Ohhh yes, good one. And that’s not just “what do you want to do?”
W: But literally I’m asking: What is everything that you could earn money doing? So for example, maybe you’re really good at everything about podcasts. So you could do longform podcasting, but maybe you can work as a freelance producer or audio editor, too, or you can do consulting for people who want to start their own podcasts.
J: And think of the things that don’t deal with journalism, too. I know some folks who have walked dogs on Wag and Rover to supplement their freelancing. Some people nanny. Some people work as bartenders or at coffee shops.
Wudan, what are your superpower skills? What are you good at?
W: Hah, now? I’m really good at managing my time. And it’s gotten even better since I got a puppy --
J: -- she is a VERY cute puppy --
W: Yes, she’s an incredibly needy creature who either needs to poo, eat, or play. Like after I feed her breakfast she will sleep next to me on the couch as I write, and I look at her, and I think to myself: “... the clock is ticking. MUST WRITE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE BEFORE SHE WAKES UP.” I also take my calls within a certain time block of my day, I’ll even block out gym time in my calendar, and fact-checking time. Also, I’d say organization is key. Especially with long-term projects. I have to map out some progress on all my long term projects every week. Otherwise I forget about what I have to do.
J: I love that. I’m also super organized, so people can hire me to manage content for them or build systems. In my past jobs, I built out freelance programs and managed events. I’m also good at finances and budgeting, and I’ve been a teacher in many contexts, so I naturally gravitate toward coaching. And I’m a good developmental editor, because I’m good at organization like I said, so I’ll sometimes pick up that kind of work. All of that is in addition to the writing, of course. But the magic is in the mix-- I can’t do just one thing or I burn out on it. Oh, and I also taught yoga for a while last year! Thinking about this question really helps with figuring out your “services,” and it also means you’re not reliant on just a few clients when things get started.
W: Okay, once you’ve done that, I think the next step is to build your public profile that says “I am open for business!” So basically launching a webpage that has all this info on it.
J. You probably don’t need to advertise your dog walking services on your writing webpage, but it’s apart of your business model. Although I did have yoga AND writing on my website at one point.
W: Right! But on the webpage, it can be really simple. It could just be one main page. I had that for a while: it was just a long single-scroll.
J. Totally, and there are tons of places you can build a webpage for free. Wix, Wordpress, and beyond. You want to put a few things on your website: your services (the things you’re good at, which we just talked about) and also maybe a tagline about your business, based on your values. We’ll include a business plan worksheet that walks you through all of this in our newsletter this week, if you’re an All Access Member. (You can sign up on Patreon!)
Essentially, you need to tell people what you’re doing and why you’re the best person for the job. I have testimonials on my website, from past bosses who can talk about why I’m great to work with. People will look at your site when they think about hiring you!
W: Then you tell all your friends! Now that you have an idea of the kind of work you want to do and a website to prove it, post about it on Facebook. It can feel really weird and revealing, but you never really know what opportunities can come about. Be shameless about advertising what you can do. Make a Twitter!
I will say, as an immigrant, this feels really weird for me. My parents raised me with the idea that if I work hard, I’ll be able to earn money. So asking for opportunities almost feels like begging but… the more that you can do, the better. It will land you clients you might not expect.
J: Yeah, it’s super important to ask people for help. I was also one of those people who grew up thinking that if I worked hard enough, people would notice and give me work. But that’s not what happened.
When I first decided I was doing this, I emailed everyone I knew who worked in journalism. My old bosses. Random friends of friends in the industry. Old co-workers. People I’d met at conferences. My first gigs all came from these emails! And I posted on social, too. It was intimidating but it really paid off. I remember signing that first email “here goes nothing!” and my mom emailed back to tell me to stop it and just be bold. I was like oh crap, she’s right!
I’d say the question here is: Who is on your hype squad? Who can you reach out to, who is well connected and can help you? It’s best if those people have seen your work before and can vouch for you. But think big, like including family friends and people you went to school with.
W: Right. We’ll talk about this more in future episodes, but it’s about building relationships, not just finding one-off clients. In other words, it’s helpful to think about the ‘business’ of freelancing in human terms, rather than gross transactional terms like… networking
J: I really hate networking. HATE it. Like, putting me in a room full of people and telling me to network is my purgatory.
W: SAME
J: Except you’re really good at it! Or at least I think you are. And I know networking is such an important skill-- but at first, it’s less reaching out to random people you don’t know, and more authentically connecting with people who can vouch for your work and set you up with work. Something. Anything. Ask for help.
W: Yes. And sometimes you’ll have to phase out of those very initial relationships, for a number of reasons we ‘ll get to in future episodes, and that’s okay.
J: Okay so then, it’s important to figure out the finances. This was the most stressful part for me: How was I going to make money? I needed to pay rent.
W: 100% worth saying that there’s no shame in doing something that’s not journalism. I tutored, I know some colleagues who have worked in coffee shops or other service jobs. There’s really really no shame in not being a purist starting out.
J: Yes! I taught yoga for a bit. And when I started freelancing, NONE of my work was in pure journalism. I was doing a lot of work for brands, and really taking anything that paid the bills. This allowed me to feel like I could jump in, and then I got more strategic as I went.
I call this the “stable ground floor gig” -- it’s the thing you want to get your network to help you with. You need a couple thousand dollars of stable income every month when you start, so you aren’t freaking out every day about paying your bills. That can be fact checking, dog walking, copy editing, social media management-- anything.
J: We have a lot more to say about finances, but we’re going to save that for next week. Freelance money mindset 101, coming your way.
W: Anything else?
J: I think that’s it for those basic questions about starting your freelance career: Figure out your values, think about what you’re good at, define what you want to do and your services and put them on a website, and then tell people that you’re taking on work! And once you tell everyone you know, see if you can find a stable ground floor gig that gives you some stability.
Also, I wanna point out that the stuff we just talked about actually takes a lot of self reflection and time, but I promise it’s worth it. I think it’s why we’re both still doing this work after a few years.
W: We have a few good ways to help you with that self reflection bit. First: If you haven’t already, be sure to sign up for our newsletter, at thewriterscoop.substack.com, where we’ll be posting show notes and resources. You can also support us on Patreon, where we have three tiers of membership. You can become a basic Writers’ Co-op Member for $3/ month, which means you’ll be able to submit questions to us, to tell us what you want to learn about, and you’ll also get basic newsletters and access to a bonus episode at the end of this first season.
J: But if you can, we’d love to have you become an All-Access member, which is slightly extra and means you’ll receive worksheets and resources in your email newsletter, in addition to all that stuff you get as a normal member.
W: And if you’re really looking for a more personalized experience, we offer a VIP membership on Patreon, through which you get access to Jenni and me for an hour of personal freelance career coaching each month, in addition to all the other good stuff.
J: Cool. If you have further thoughts to share, sign up for our newsletter and membership and you’ll get access to a Google form through which you can also send us questions! The goal is to make this podcast a resource for YOU, so we can improve this wild industry together.
W: Okay, I think that does it. I’m excited for the next episode, which I feel gets at the crux of how to be successful as a freelancer. It’s all about MONEY. So see you then! Bye Jenni.
J: Bye Wudan!
