Deepa Lakshmin
SEASON 2, EPISODE 7:
What does it look like to run a freelance business on the side while still holding down a full-time job? This week, we have social media expert Deepa Lakshmin on the show to talk about how she balances both. By day, Deepa works full-time leading content marketing for the Tribeca Film Festival, At night, she runs her freelance business. She’s reported for National Geographic, MTV News, and NYLON, and she’s managed social media for The Daily Beast, New York Post, and Atlas Obscura. She’s even done some copywriting for brands like OkCupid, Citi, and AT&T. You can follow her on Twitter or Instagram, and we encourage you to check out her website, too. Deepa and Jenni discussed the privilege of being in a phase of life where you can prioritize work and just that, and how to plan your career strategically as a freelancer. Deepa also talks about her social media and audience engagement work, and shares how she finds those gigs. If you're a TWC member, you'll get access to a worksheet from Deepa about how to tell your freelance career story, plus a skill-building bingo card. If you love TWC Pod, we think you'll also love the Creative Nonfiction Podcast! Freelance writer Brendan O’Meara is the host of the show, and he’s having the conversations we aren’t having, all about the craft of nonfiction writing. We think it’s a really nice accompaniment to The Writers’ Co-op because part of building a strong business is building strong writing skills. Subscribe wherever you podcast.
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Full Transcript Below:
W- Hello, everyone.
J- Welcome back to The Writers'. Co-op.
W- We are making a business podcast for freelance writers everywhere.
J- Indeed, we are. We are your co-hosts. I'm Jenni.
W- And I'm Wudan.
J- Hey, Wudan. How's it going with wrapping up here at 2020 workload?
W- I mean, by the time this episode runs, I will not be working, but as we're recording a few weeks in advance, I am sprinting. Lots of stuff to finish up. And I feel like I'm just screaming inside my heart.
J- Pretty much, same. It's been wildly busy. I think we both have like four coaching sessions a day. I know I'm going to get everything done between now and the end of the month when I'm taking time off. But yeah, cramming in a bunch of work while feeling exhausted is really tough. I posted on Twitter actually a couple of days ago about how your bandwidth really determines how much you can make as a freelancer. And so many people responded to it. I think most of us just really need a break right now so that we can come back with energy in January because you know, it's been a really rough year. So you, listener, person, writer: take time off. You deserve it.
W- We are always here to yell at you to take time off in order to make more money because you're worth it.
J- Yes, always. Okay. So this season, as you know, we are interviewing other freelancers about their businesses. And so far we've talked to a foreign reporter, a copywriter, a six-figure freelancer, and a photo journalist. Now we are headed into the second half of those interviews
W- It's been really fascinating to learn about how many paths there are to freelancing.
J- Agreed. I have particularly loved seeing how different people's incomes are and the fact that all those income numbers still feel successful to them based on what they need in their lives. Like you don't have to make six figures. It's not the end all be all.
W- It's absolutely not. So before we dive into this week's interview, we want to put in another plug for the Creative Fonfiction Podcast, or CNF pod.
J- Yes. Freelance writer Brendan O'Meara is the host of the show. And he's having the kind of conversations that we don't have on our podcast. It's all about the craft of non-fiction writing. And I think it's a really nice accompaniment to our podcast because obviously part of building a strong writing business is building strong writing skills. So we hope you all will check it out. That is the Creative Nonfiction Podcast. You can subscribe wherever you podcast or visit Brendan's website at brendanomeara.com.
W- On that note, let's get into the interview. Jenni, who did you talk to this week?
J- Yeah, this week I chatted with Deepa Lakshmin. Deepa has a really interesting background that I think spans marketing, copywriting, journalism, social media. She's reported for places like Nat Geo, Nylon MTV News. And then she's also managed social media for big names like the Daily Beast, New York Post and Atlas Obscura. So she actually has a full-time job. And by day she leads content marketing for the Tribeca Film Festival, which is very cool. And then by night she runs her freelance business, which specializes in audience development. And she even does copywriting for brands like OkCupid. I really think it's impressive that Deepa works full-time and has this thriving freelance business. So we talked a lot about balancing all these things, all the irons in the fire and how to use freelancing as a tool for building your career. And especially for learning new skills. Deepa also gets into the best way to apply for jobs as a freelancer, how to send pitches as a freelancer, and she explains why she loves working in social media. And she even talks about how to find social media gigs. If that's something you are interested in adding to your business. So we also even got into my favorite topic, confidence building. It was fun. With all of that said, here is my conversation with Deepa.
J- Hi, Deepa, and welcome to The Writers' Co-op.
Deepa Lakshmin- Hi. Thank you so much for having me.
J- We are excited to have you here. You're our first social media expert. So it should be fun. Why don't you start by telling us where you are at right now? Where do you live and what are you up to?
D- I'm in New York, working from home as many of us are. I work a full-time job in marketing, then focus on freelance journalism and audience development projects on my evenings and weekends. I'll work from my desk for one job, my couch for another, and my kitchen counter for another to try and like, I don't know, change things up during the day.
J- The pandemic work from home life is like a very odd reality, I think, in terms of mixing up your schedule. Why don't we start at the very beginning with your career before we dive into some specific questions here. So will you tell us what services you offer at the moment? So when you think about your business that way and how you got started with doing all of this.
D- Yeah. So I guess the biggest things I do are journalism, copywriting, and social media strategy. Those are really my bread and butter. I do paid and organic social, and I can also help out with things like SEO and SEM, as well as email marketing. My freelance business is really built on a lot of the skills I've picked up at full-time jobs along the way. So it's always been really important to me to make sure I am always learning new things full-time that I can then take away and apply it to my business.
J- Yeah. That makes total sense to me. Did you think that you were going to be doing this when you were early career? Like, did you imagine that you are going to have this mix of skills? How did that sort of develop into what it looks like today?
D- Truthfully, I don't think I had any idea what I was getting myself into or what my career had in store for me. I spent most of my formative years thinking I'd be a doctor, really. In college I was planning to get my PhD in clinical psychology. I always looked at writing as this fun form of creative expression that I really did to just stay sane on my own time. But when I was 21, I remember I was going through a rough patch and I remember how much writing helped me through it. And I sort of had this epiphany where I decided it was now or never. And I was going to give it a shot for real and see if I could really make it as a writer in New York. I knew if I hadn't tried, I knew if I didn't at least try, I would always regret it.
So I applied to a summer associate program at a media company, and I told them during my interview that I wanted to be in editorial, I was very, very dedicated to that. I remember they wanted to put me in a different department, but I said, no, I want to be in a newsroom. And I stayed there for almost four years and I remember loving it from the start and knowing that I really wanted to see where I could take it from here. And from there, I moved into social media full-time at another newsroom. And then I went to an advertising agency to be a copywriter. And now I'm in marketing. I'm really glad I've explored so many different industries and ways to make a living as a writer and each of those experiences have taught me so much about my love for words, because at the end of the day, I really just have always loved writing. I would be that little kid in her room journaling at seven years old, like fantasizing the ways I would tell stories if they took place in my childhood bedroom, I just really wanted to figure out a way to make my love for words come to life as an adult.
J- I love that. I also was a journaler as a kid. And I remember thinking I would write in my journals like thinking that people were going to read them someday. Like maybe that's part of the pathology of becoming a writer. Why don't you tell me a little bit about that journalism piece to start? You know, people often have questions about how to mix journalism with copywriting and marketing. So can you tell me kind of what that piece of the puzzle looks like for you at the moment since it's all mixed together?
D- Yeah. So I think all of these different forms of writing, they really go hand in hand because they're all about storytelling at the end of the day. It's just on different platforms for different audiences and through different forms of visuals. Sometimes you're telling the story for a brand instead of reporting on an event. What I've found is that I truly enjoy doing this mix because something I've personally realized about myself is that I get burned out if I do the same thing every day, all day, even if it's something I really love doing. So as much as I love journalism and I still consider myself a journalist first and foremost — that's where I've had all my training — I have to do other things. Otherwise I will start to love journalism a little bit less. So that's kind of in my plan, if I've had a plan all this time.
J- Yeah. I totally feel that. Let's talk a little bit about that work mix and having a full-time job, just because I know a lot of our listeners actually are freelancing the side of a full-time job. So what does that look like for you on a daily basis and how do you pick which gigs you're going to take in addition to that full-time job?
D- So I try to think very critically about how I manage my energy and some weeks I'm better at this than others. I'm going to be completely honest. I am not perfect at this, but I think very hard about when during the day I have the most energy and I try to devote it to the tasks that are the highest priority. And I really designate those tasks based on deadline. During the work day, I'm at my full-time job. So a nice perk, I guess, of my energy or a nice perk of the way I work is that I do get this burst of energy late at night. So I tend to do a lot of my freelance work, I would say, 11:00 PM to 1:00 AM. I'm definitely a night owl. I do a lot of work on weekends. If I lose a day of the weekend, I definitely feel that for the rest of the week.
So it's really about me being mindful of how I'm spending my time and also taking on assignments. The way I take on assignments is really thinking about what can this assignment, what value does that offer me? Does it bring me joy? I try to make my little kid version of myself proud. I try to think about like that little girl in her childhood bedroom, scribbling away in her journal. What kind of jobs would make her really happy and really excited? And then I also think about how a certain opportunity can expand my portfolio. If something can then lead me to get more freelance work down the line because it expands my skillset, then I value that as something I really should make the time for. I do want to add that the reason I am able to do full-time and freelance and the reason I've been able to make both of those work with my schedule is because I have the privilege of being able to be completely selfish with my time. I can spend every waking hour of my day on work if I choose to do so. And if I, you know, of course love the work and want to do that for myself. And not everybody can do that. And I'm in a phase of my life where I am able to do that. So I'm trying to use that to my advantage and make sure that I'm really filling my life with a lot of fulfilling professional opportunities in addition to, of course, making time for my friends. But at the end of the day, I do have a lot of time for myself that I can spend on work if I choose to do so.
J- Yeah. It's interesting. I think, you know, when you have a full-time job and you're freelancing on the side, it really pushes the need to have those projects be really exciting or interesting. Wudan and I actually talked about that a few episodes ago. Someone asked on the Q&A "how do you manage both and how do you choose?" And that's exactly what we said. Like these things need to be either like something that you're passionate about or something that gives you joy or something that's really interesting. So I love the way you talked about sort of making that you younger version of yourself proud. Let's talk about the finances of all this. Cause you know, we love to talk about that on this podcast. Why don't you tell us how much you make and then kind of how you think about money given that you have a full-time job in that sort of freelancing world?
D- Yeah, of course. So this year I'll be bringing in about $60-65,000 in freelance money. So that will be on top of my full-time income. It definitely took me a minute to get here and I want to be transparent about that. I have been trying to double my freelance income each year. I don't think I'll do it in 2021, but the first year I started, I made $12,000 and the second year I made $30,000. So since I started I've doubled each year. I will say that most of my freelance income really comes from social media strategy work. I've done. I price my projects based on a lot of different factors. But like you said, with a full-time job, I really try to focus on coming up with my happy rate. I can't take credit for that term, but I remember reading about it somewhere. I'm sorry, I don't know who to credit for coming up with that. But your happy rate is really the idea that you consider how happy doing a particular job will make you when you're setting the rate. So for projects, like I mentioned, that I'm super interested in, or that I know will expand my portfolio, I'm happy to do the work for a lower price because I see it as more of a long-term investment in my own personal and professional growth. For situations where I'm negotiating a long-term contract or something where I'm going to be on retainer for a company, I always try to negotiate those because even if you get $5 more per hour, that really adds up over time, over months, over years, even, and really the worst they can say is no when you ask for more money. So I think it's always worth asking if you feel like there's room to negotiate.
J- Totally. That makes a lot of sense to me. Why don't you tell us about some of the social media work? Cause I think people are going to be pretty curious about, you know, what do you mean when you say you're doing social media on audience engagement? Like what does that look like? And then how it sort of mixes in with your other work, how you juggle both. So why don't you explain maybe like a typical gig you would pick up or something you've done, that's exciting in the social media realm.
D- Yeah. So it can be a mix of things and it really varies depending on the company and what their specific needs are. So some social media related projects I've done is something where I will develop social content series for a company that's just trying to get their feet wet in social media and they don't really know where to start. I might come up with the strategy for their social media channels and just come to them as more of a consultant where I tell them, Hey, these are the platforms that really make the most sense for you to be developing an audience because these are the people that you can convert into actual customers for your particular product. For other companies, it be more that they just need an additional hand for their existing social media team. So I see that a lot with newsrooms who just need somebody to come on for a weekend or for specific breaking news events where people are just overwhelmed. So things like that might be figuring out what assets to put up on their social media channels or writing the copy for the captions, managing the actual publishing of those posts and timing them, optimizing them to make sure they're going out at the right time to hit the widest audience. It can also be for some companies just managing the sheer number of social channels they have. So a lot of times these big companies will have five or six different social media accounts for different brands as well. So not even just counting across Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, but also having those separate accounts for different brands under the same umbrella. So figuring out what content goes where, what content can be cross-posted. And then also on top of that, paid social comes into that a lot as well. So managing Facebook ads, Instagram ads, I also do SEM, which is typically Google ads. So figuring out what campaigns will benefit from having an ad spend behind them and then figuring out how do you optimize those paid campaigns to make sure you're getting the most return on your investment and make sure they are driving ticket sales, driving viewership, driving whatever your KPI that that company really is looking for.
J- This is fascinating to hear about. You know, I started my career at Upworthy and it was this bizarre mix of sort of journalism, but also really thinking critically about how we were disseminating our stories. And I would imagine that that's something that not all journalism organizations are adept at. So it's really cool to talk strategically about this. Tell me, are you going in on an hourly basis most of the time with these folks, or do you negotiate sort of a monthly fee? Like how do you think about that work when you're coming in to help, let's say, like one project or one event?
D- It completely depends on the project. I have some companies, especially ones where I do more copywriting based work, where I'll do an hourly rate for clients that will want me for several months, I'll do a weekend or a weekly rate, depending on the days of the week they want me around. Something I do always try to do because I do work full-time, I'm very clear about not necessarily being available during business hours because I have to devote that to my full-time job, of course. And there can't really be that overlap. Also that really complicates it when you are measuring your time and tracking how many hours you do need to go in and then bill for. So if I'm multitasking between different clients within the same hour, then that really muddles things up for me then on the bookkeeping side. So I try to really like designate separate times where I'm on a particular client.
J- Yep. That makes total sense. Those boundaries, especially when you have a full-time job, I think are really important. Otherwise you're doing three things at once and none of them particularly well. Tell me where you're finding this sort of work. Is it through referrals? Are you on certain job boards? Like where, where do you see these opportunities?
D- It's a mixed bag. So I would say the bulk of my work comes from referrals at this time. I of course do cold pitching whenever I want to do something for journalism. And I'm just, you know, doing the whole freelance hustle of pitching editors and hoping they like my story idea. But for social media stuff, it's really referrals, things coming from previous coworkers. Sometimes I've found gigs just by seeing companies post job listings for copywriters or for a social media editor. And they'll say, we just want somebody freelance. We want somebody for a couple hours a week and then I'll apply. And I'm always really upfront. And in those processes and say, Hey, this is how much time I can dedicate to this XYZ task. Are you interested? And there are definitely situations where they've wanted somebody who can devote more hours than I can. And in those cases, I just say, Hey, I'm available. If you need somebody for X hours a week, or if you just need somebody for one-off project, let me know. Here's my info, hope to work together in the future, take care. But I think a lot of it is just making those connections and hoping they pay off down the line. I will say one of my first freelance branded content gigs that I got my first year, which really kicked started this journey for me because it was the first time I realized you can make a decent amount of money by freelancing, they found my resume after I had applied to a full-time job with them about a year or so ago, maybe four or five years ago, but they dug my resume out of their archives somewhere. And they said, Hey, we need somebody to do entertainment, journalism on a freelance basis. We saw your resume. It's kind of been a minute, but would you be willing to do this for us? And I was like, yeah, yeah, let's do that.
J- Yeah, that's the best. That's like, one of my sneaky strategies is applying to full-time jobs and then saying, which I like, I think I do want them when I applied at first, but then I realized I don't want them and kind of spinning it into something that's freelance or at least just like getting to know the people on the team. I think there's a lot of payoff there. It's maybe sneaky, but yeah, it works. It totally works. Tell me a little bit about breaking into social media. So if there are writers or journalists who are listening to this and they're thinking like that works sounds really interesting. I want to do that. Where would you recommend that they start with building a portfolio or proving that they can do this sort of stuff?
D- I mean, the first thing I would say for any career change or thinking about a new direction in your career is figuring out your angle, just like you would any other story. And journalists definitely know how to figure out an angle, right? So what's your hook? Why do you want to go into social media? I think that will really help you figure out your story that you then are going to reiterate and tell over and over again in job interviews. So the way I started was by doing social media for a newsroom, which I think is a much easier transition before you go for brands because you know, the ins and outs of a newsroom. And the thing about social media and the reason I went into it from full time journalism was because I really wanted a big picture view of how digital media worked as a whole. And social media is a really great way to see all the different pieces of digital media, because you touch pretty much all the areas. So you work with accounts, you work with like branded content, you work with the journalists who are on the ground, reporting the stories you work with leadership, you work with all the departments, you work with product if you're releasing new features. You really get to see all the different pockets of a company. And then you can, from there, figure out what parts you want to learn more about, or what you enjoy doing more, or find more fulfilling than other parts of the work. And then you can kind of figure out where you want your career to go from there. That was sort of my motivation. And in terms of a portfolio and all of that, I think there is so much more value in knowing how all the different social media platforms work then to necessarily have super active platforms in your own right. I think it's great to have accounts. So you know, how those platforms work. I think it's great to see how people actually put together a Tik Tok and understand how much work goes into creating a YouTube video, things like that. But I don't think that there should be as much pressure on being an influencer or whatever in your own life. If you have that type of following, I think cool, great. But it's definitely not the end-all be-all. I certainly am not. And it's way more important, in my opinion, to know what and how and why each platform has the value it does, and be able to identify the value for a particular company on a particular platform, if that makes sense.
J- Yep. That totally makes sense. I really like what you said also about learning, how to tell your own story. You know, figuring out what the narrative is, because I think for a lot of freelancers, like we have this giant bucket of skills — many different jobs, many different things we've done. And so learning how to explain that is actually, I think, challenging. So I like what you said about kind of thinking upfront about how to tell that story. I think it's important. And so let's talk about your journalism a little bit. Talk to me about pitching. Pitching is traditionally very challenging, especially cold pitching. What's your strategy when you decide there's a story you want to tell, and you're going to reach out. Talk through kind of your process there.
D- I do it the old fashioned way. I look for editors on Twitter, or look at calls to pitches. I have a whole bookmarked folder of just tweets from editors, with their emails, asking for pitches on my browser. And I have a very specific way I think about stories. Because I am so limited on time, I really make sure the stories I am devoting my time and resources into pitching are the stories where I am so passionate about them I must write about them. And I think very critically about why I'm the right person to write that particular story as well. Is it the sources I already have through the industry? Is it an area that I have a ton of knowledge on? I try to make sure whenever I am pitching an editor, I have a good explanation for why I'm the perfect writer to write that thing.
J- understanding how to explain your background. Do you include a paragraph about that in your pitch? Like, is it very specific in what you write to the editor?
D- Sometimes. It depends. I do a lot of reporting. So, my reporting is a mix of entertainment journalism and travel journalism and lifestyle here and there. I have done a lot of travel journalism focused on India, just because I grew up visiting India a lot. And I'm very familiar with one of the cities there. So I do include that in my pitches when I am writing a story about that city, because it's relevant or I will include clips that are relevant to the specific story. If it is something where I'm pitching something related to music, I'll include more of my music focused clips. So I try to tailor each individual pitch to make sense with whatever story I'm trying to tell.
J- Yeah, that makes sense to me. Tell me a little bit about, you know, like people are probably listening to this and thinking like, Oh my gosh, she's doing so many things. And I think particularly I keep thinking like, you know, social media can also be something that makes your brain feel really full because it's sort of constant. Talk to me a little bit about kind of maybe how you carve out time for yourself or how you decide when it's time to step away from your work. Like, do you get a sense that you're about to burn out or a sense that, you know, something is too much for you? How do you implement those boundaries in your life?
D- It's definitely tough. I'm not going to lie and I wish I was better at it. And it's something I'm trying to be better at in my day to day life because I live my life online as many of us do. And so it is really hard for me to detach. So I try my best to be good about taking time off when I need to, and always making sure every week I do have a couple activities planned that give me joy away from my computer. So that might be hanging out with friends. I mean, now it's more, it's more of a Zoom call. So not gonna lie, it's definitely been tough this year. But in normal times, it's really about hanging out with my friends in real life. I try to spend my weekends doing a mix of work, but also making sure I'm spending at least as much time with my friends or watching TV or reading for fun. I try to do a lot of creative things outside of work because I get a lot of my inspiration from the stuff I do outside of work. If that makes sense. I don't see any problem with watching Netflix for hours on end because I take away inspiration from the stories I'm seeing told on screen. Same thing with TV shows. I think that there's value in seeing how other artists create their work and being inspired by that. Even if in the moment, you're just kinda like eating popcorn and like, yeah, like I haven't moved from my couch in hours, but sometimes you need that. You need that to just kind of feel inspired to make your own really cool work.
J- I totally agree. Like watching what might appear to be kind of a fluffy TV show oftentimes will give me ideas for stories or things like that. And there is definite value in like stepping off the hustle treadmill, but I think it's hard. I think it's really hard. Especially when, you know, you have a lot of side hustles going on. I appreciate that you said it's difficult because I just think it is.
D- And I do always take my vacation. I always use all of my vacation days and sometimes those vacation days, you know, it's harder to take them because I have to then convey to like all my freelance gigs, Hey, I'm going to be off the grid on these days. So it's kind of hard to take off, not just for my full-time job, but from all these other jobs, but I've found everyone's really understanding of that and really respectful if I'm going to be away from my email for a couple of days.
J- Yup. Again, it's that direct boundary setting, right. It always pays to be direct with folks. Tell me, Deepa, a little bit about kind of your career trajectory, you know, for freelancers, especially, it can be really tough to build skills or get mentorship. And you talked a lot about being strategic about the gigs that you take to sort of build your career. But tell me how you think about kind of your trajectory in this industry, because there's not really a typical path. Like, you know, do you think you will end up in marketing? Do you sort of see this as a year by year case-by-case basis on what you're interested in at the given moment? Like how does career building work in your brain?
D- I think right now for where I'm at, I'm taking it year by year. Honestly, more like six months by six months and seeing where it takes me. I don't know what my goal is. I don't know necessarily what my dream job is. I think the term "dream job" is a little bit overplayed, honestly. I really think I'm just trying to learn as many things as I can, and I'm still pretty early on in my career. And I think that life has a lot more things in store for me. And I'm excited to see what those things may be. Most of my mentorship has honestly come from former coworkers and from the full-time jobs I've had along the way, but also just researching and learning what other freelancers are doing right now, even if I don't know them personally. So this podcast is a great example. Any form of social media people are so open these days and sharing their experiences in this industry. So I've found all of those tips and tricks extremely valuable in informing how I run my own business. And I also learn from people who are in other industries, because it doesn't matter if it's a designer or an artist or an engineer working on a freelance basis. Everybody has that same entrepreneurial spirit and chances are everyone is encountering the same types of challenges you are as a freelancer. So if you can build that community of people who have that same spirit as you of thinking about how you can grow your own business and figure out a way to come up and design really the most rewarding career for the type of life you want to live, I think you're on the right track.
J- I wish you could see me. I want to clap over here. It's like, yes! You know, I think we really silo ourselves in journalism quite a bit. And some of the folks I've learned from the most have been not within this industry. And there's so many similarities. And to me, I sort of am the same as you: I think in six month increments about what is the next interesting thing I want to learn about. Because past that even if I try to plan past that, things don't work out the way I thought they would anyway. So that flexibility I think is really key and important. And our industry is just always changing. You know, I don't think you can count on it being the same in a year as we've learned in 2020. Okay. Last question for you: Why don't you tell me about a really good business decision that you've made, like maybe something that you would offer to another freelancer who's building their business. What is a pro tip that you have?
D- I think I've hammered this home the whole talk, but really diversifying my skillset was the best business decision that I think I've made because the more things you know how to do, the more opportunities will come to you. And then also you can go after more opportunities. I don't think you need to necessarily love every single skill you developed, but you can still mentally note like, Hey, I don't find this particular task that rewarding, but I know how to do it if I need to do it. And something I've learned along the way, is that a full-time staff job? Well, they are amazing and very rare these days. They can also, at times, especially in this industry, feel just as uncertain as being full-time freelance. And I've really found is that the more things I know how to do, the more control I have over the direction and success of my career. And at the end of the day, that's really been, what's most important to me. I want to make sure that I feel like I have a say in the way my career is going. And freelancing, the way I've been developing my freelance business has really helped instill that confidence in me. And I can feel myself just on a personal level, be much more confident in my day-to-day life, because I feel like I have this sense of agency in my professional career that I never had before I started freelancing.
J- I love this. We talk about confidence a lot and like confidence is built and I can hear it in your voice that you trust yourself. And I think for me too, that's the best thing I've gotten out of freelancing is I feel like I built my own lifeboat, you know, like whatever happens, I'm good. I can trust myself and I can trust the skills that I've built and I know I'm going to be okay. And in an industry that is stormy literally all the time, I think there is a lot to be said for that from a mental health perspective and sort of an empowerment perspective. So I love it. That's the best advice. Okay. Well, thank you so much for being on here. It's been lovely to talk. And for those of you listening, we will drop all of Deepa's links into the show notes so that you can check her out and hire her for all the social media work that you need and follow her. And yeah. Thank you so much for your time, Deepa. I appreciate it.
D- Thank you so much.
W- I have never quite thought of social media as getting a bird's eye view on how a newsroom works. And I really appreciated Deepa's perspective on that. Also it was so refreshing to hear her say that she thinks a five-year plan, whatever you want to call it, is overrated. I mean, I totally agree. And I think you and I are constantly reassessing our businesses, Jenni. So it's a great way to build a freelance career by just constantly reassessing, being nimble, and diversifying.
J- Yeah. Deepa has a really great perspective on career building that I totally dig. We are including a worksheet for our members this week that's going to walk you through how to build out the story that you want to tell when you're applying for jobs or sending a pitch. And she's also going to walk you through thinking about your hook, your story, your narrative, what specifically you want to do for that client, as she said, it's all about figuring out your angle.
W- That should be so good. I can't wait to see that.
J- Yeah. The second resource for this episode is skill building bingo, which should be fun. We want you to be able to think about building your own lifeboat since this industry is pretty damn shaky, as Deepa and I discussed. So think of it as like creating a training program for yourself in 2021. What do you want to learn? Then you're going to go out and look for gigs or courses or experiences that can help you gain those skills
W- Totally. Or maybe just learn to do it yourself. I think of this podcast like that in a way, right? We script our own episodes, cast their own guests and we're figuring out what's possible with audio. It's been a lot of fun.
J- Totally. And we've definitely learned as we go by messing up. Anyway, build your own training program 2021. And with that, we are going to send you on your way into the new year. What a wild wild year this has been.
W- Truly. Remember when we started working on this podcast like a year ago, we had no idea. I remember during our first episodes, we'd just be like, for the sake of posterity, we just want to note that it's still the pandemic and that was in March.
J- Yeah. And now we're in December, still trucking along. Still the pandemic. It's a lot.
W- Honestly, though, we just want to say thanks for supporting us during this wild year.
J- Yeah. We're really grateful for you all.
W- Happy freaking new year. Okay, Jenni, I will talk to you soon. Bye.
J- Bye, Wudan.
W- Season two of The Writers' Co-op is made possible by a grant from the International Women's Media Foundation. Susan Valot is our editor and Jen Monnier handles research, admin, and more as our producer. The Writers' Co-op is hosted by me, Wudan Yan and Jenni Gritters.
