Surviving a Layoff

SEASON 4, EPISODE 10:

Today we’re talking about a subject that’s near and dear to Jenni's heart: getting laid off. At this point, being laid off feels like a rite of passage, particularly in the media space. Jenni herself was laid off in 2018 as part of a restructuring at her job, and she knows from personal experience how grief-filled the experience can be as you grapple with your work identity, anger, loneliness, and so much more.

But when we asked you about layoffs on Twitter, you also reminded us that there are incredible silver linings to being laid off! For many of us, layoffs pushed us into freelancing. And in freelancing, we found confidence, freedom and belonging. In today’s episode, Jenni tells her layoff story. Then we get into the typical process – we call it the four stages of layoff grief and acceptance – that most of us will go through when a job disappears from under our feet.

Full Transcript Below:

Wudan Yan- Hello, and welcome to The Writers' Co-Op.

Jenni Gritters- We are a podcast for freelance creatives everywhere, and we're focused on the anti hustle side of things, aka how to build a sustainable business model that works for you. And doesn't burn you out.

Wudan Yan- We are your co-hosts. I'm Wudan Yan.

Jenni Gritters- And I'm Jenni Gritters.

Wudan Yan- Jenni, what's up?

Jenni Gritters- Oh, you know, not much just trucking along here in February. We are recording this episode in mid-February, but most of you are gonna listen to it in March. So by then I'm hoping that my schedule is going to be even quieter than it is now. Fingers crossed.

Wudan Yan- Yeah. How was that going with the scaling back?

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, you know, I keep thinking about the overbooking episode we recorded earlier this season and laughing because I think even letting go of a bunch of my one on one clients means that I'm still pretty busy, like, I was probably at like 150% capacity. And now I'm at like 100%. So clearly, this overwork is tied to my identity, in ways that I shall be discussing with my therapist later today. But I am starting to get more time in my day, slowly, really slowly to work on some writing projects actually have three different personal essays in the hopper. So that was the goal. Yeah, it's happening slowly. But at least it's happening.

Wudan Yan- I also saw you posting about using LinkedIn a while back. How has that been helpful to you?\

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, it's kind of surprising. So I am taking on more writing work again. And specifically, I'm really interested in working with writing about coaching and personal development, because I just did this whole training about it. So I set my LinkedIn as open to business and did the thing that we tell everyone to do, which is like, say that you're open for work, tell people what you're looking for. And I actually already have a few new clients ready to onboard for March. And so yeah, I would say it's working well. LinkedIn has been surprisingly useful when I'm working with brand clients. And then I have also gone back to some of my regular writing clients, though. I slowed a lot of them down over the fall. And so I'm back, you know, give me work. And I would say I have a pretty even to full writing roster now. It's definitely easier on my brain and my life right now. Because I can sit and write versus having a conversation. So different seasons require different things. I don't know why we think that we're ever done with making adjustments, but we're not. This is part of running a business. And right now this definitely seems like it's working better for me.

Wudan Yan- Yeah, that sounds like a good exercise in going back to the basics with finding new work. See also episode three, I think of our first season.

Jenni Gritters- I know, I know, it's good to remind myself at this process, because I talk about it a lot in coaching. But I actually haven't had to go out and drum up new work for a while. So yeah, I think it's been good for me. How are you, Wudan? What's up?

Wudan Yan- As per usual, the year has kicked off, and it's just a raging torrent of stuff. So in addition to all the regular work, I am also making pivots. So during different things with my business, I am growing services that I was not previously proactive with, and moving into slightly different industries, too. So the last few weeks have just been me, you know, putting in the legwork to ensure that the rest of the year works out in a way that I want. So similar too, Jenni, of just building up your client list. Lots and lots and lots of discovery calls and letters of interest, lots of calls. It's not a way that I've commonly worked. And I too am putting much of the advice I've given to others to use myself. So trying to set myself up for success planning out a first international trip in like two years and also closing on a house.

Jenni Gritters- It's a lot. Yeah, we're both closing on houses right now, which we may talk about in a future episode. But it's so interesting. I mean, it reminds me about how there is no like, quote, unquote, "there" in a business. Like we don't get there, we don't arrive. We're always making these little agile shifts. And I think this is the benefit of freelancing, right? We get bored, we need something different. We can create it, but it's also a lot sometimes. I would love to hear more about what new stuff you're looking to do if you're up for sharing?

Wudan Yan- Yeah, so my theme for this year is to do less, so I can do more, which basically translates to being a lot more targeted in what I do and having the return on investment in terms of rate being really high for those things. So it frees up time for me to just be me, right? Like I think about career progression in a few ways. And I think this is a really big one for me, because two years ago, I was making six figures and really burnt out and now I want to continue to be able to do that by doing less and a lot being a lot more strategic. So what that looks like specifically is expanding my speaking roster, and also expanding the role that I play in working on podcasts. So of course, I host and write The Writers' Co-Op here. And I also fact check other narrative shows. So I'm looking to broaden that set of services more and take on other roles in the great world of podcasting, such as producing. All of this kind of stems from this idea that I'm really, maybe a bit tired of writing, especially writing journalism. I think my brain just wants something slightly new. And I like working on teams.

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, it makes total sense. I mean, this is the silver lining of freelancing, the ability to change it up when our brains hurt. So I'm excited for you. Sounds like cool stuff.

Wudan Yan- Definitely. So Jenni, what are we talking about today?

Jenni Gritters- Well, in keeping with some of these mindset conversations we've been having and talking about change in our businesses, we're actually going to talk about layoffs today, which is an episode I have been wanting to talk about for a while. We get asked about this topic a lot, but we really haven't had room to address layoffs. And I think this is a really good spot for it. So we're going to talk about how to get through layoff, what most people feel like when they've been laid off, and also talk about some personal stories, specifically mine when it comes to being laid off.

Wudan Yan- Yeah, it's worth noting that this is our last formal episode for this formal season. Our next episode for our Patreon subscribers. It is a secret episode. And it's a good one. It's about perfectionism. So if you're not yet a member, get on board. You can access that in early March at patreon.com/TWCpod.

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, it's gonna be so interesting. And another topic we've wanted to talk about for a while. And again, that episode only goes out to members. So you'll want to be a member, even that $3 month tier, you get access to that. And then we've also decided that we are going to drop a few new, I don't even know if we're going to call it a new season, just a few random episodes over the spring, probably about one a month before I go on maternity leave this summer. And we're doing travels. So if y'all have topics that you're wanting to see us cover, it's going to be a pretty random subset episode in April, May and June. Definitely reach out to us. We always love to hear from you. And in the meantime, our members are going to keep getting resources Q&A's, newsletters. We'll still be doing events, all that stuff throughout those months as well.

Wudan Yan- Yeah, lots of good stuff coming your way before we both take breaks. So Jenni, let's dive into this episode. Do you want to start by telling us your layoff story?

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, for sure. I have probably talked about this a little bit in pieces throughout the past four seasons. But in 2018, I was working for Wirecutter, which is a New York Times Company. I was the first employee hired actually after they were acquired by The New York Times. And while I was there, I was an editor I was focused on longform product reviews, mostly in the outdoors and travel sections. And the layoff story goes like this. One day, I got a Slack message from my boss asking my co-workers and I, all of us, everybody on our team to hold time on our calendars for a potential Zoom meeting. And honestly, I've been at enough companies where layoffs are about to happen that like, I mean, I think almost everybody who's had a full time media job knows this schtick, right? I knew what that meant. So I spent about 24 hours panicking. And then we all sat around for an hour waiting to see who got the Slack message telling them to get on Zoom to get fired.

Wudan Yan- And you got the call.

Jenni Gritters- I did. I did. And in the past, I had not gotten the call—at past jobs. This time I did. It was me and five other people. So on the Zoom was my boss and random person from HR. And the person from HR read from a script and said they were disbanding the team. They had eliminated my position. I was really sad. I remember being kind of frozen during the conversation. Like it probably only lasted for five or 10 minutes. But like it was such a surreal moment. Then they just told me like, yep, you have two weeks to finish up your work. And you're done.

Wudan Yan- I first heard you say, bot instead of boss, and I'm like, Yes. I guess that could have come from a bot too. But how did you manage to work for the two weeks after that?

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, honestly, I didn't. I just did the bare minimum, I handed everything off. I was really angry. The terms in which this had happened were pretty rough. I had just gotten a really positive performance review. So I didn't find it to be a productive time, surprisingly. They made us send all of our stuff back too. So at some point I didn't even have a laptop to work off of. It was a pretty brutal few weeks, to be honest. I was sort of just phoning it in and getting those last few paychecks.

Wudan Yan- Yeah. So how did you feel about it? What was your emotional reaction?

Jenni Gritters- For a lot of reasons that I actually like truly can't get into, it was just a really messy layoff like I said, and so there was a lot of drama about the particular people who got laid off. But my primary emotional response was that I had done something wrong. So there were, I think, three or four editors on the team, and they cut all of us but one person, and I really particularly was fixated on this question of why I hadn't been the one person who got to stay. I was really angry. I was really sad. I was really hurt. I over analysed for weeks, I wondered what I done. And then the end the answer was that like I did nothing. You know, I talked to my boss, I talked to my manager. I'm like, What did I do? Honestly, it was just a business decision. Although I think there were some things about me being ambitious that didn't really jive well with the company culture. I was told a lot that I was trying to do too much, build too much. I just needed to stay in my place. So there was a sort of cultural misfit there, too, I think. But after the layoff, I did get six weeks of severance, which at the time, I thought was like, really good. And now I know is not that great, but it's six weeks of pay. And you've heard the story if you've been listening to the podcast for a while, but I dove back into job applications for like all kinds of places within those first few weeks because I was super panicked. So applying for journalism jobs, communication jobs, HR, jobs, even PR stuff. And every time I talked to someone about a full time job and interviewed, I would just get like so sweaty and stressed out. I was just like, I don't want to do this.

Wudan Yan- I do remember you saying you went in for those interviews and realize that you just didn't want that anymore. It's kind of a same shit different toilet situation.

Jenni Gritters- Yes. I love that quote. Yeah, that's what my husband said about it. But I really didn't want a full time job. That said, it seemed really reasonable to apply for these things. Because that's what you do, right? You lose a job and you try to find another one. But thankfully, I had a really good therapist at the time, who was encouraging me to explore other options. Like she was like, listen, you're kind of in this box, where you're seeing only these jobs as an option. But what if there is something else? What if there's running your own business? What if there's a hybrid option where you're working part time, so I had actually freelance before I should say, for about three or four months between this job and my previous job. And this time around again, I had a few offers on the table for freelance projects, people who knew I got laid off and wanted to bring me in to help with editorial projects. And so I kind of could see that I can make it work over the summer. I got laid off in late March, but the logistics scared me honestly. So my therapist helped me to work through a lot of those fears about the logistics and about making it work, making the money work. So the long and short of the story is basically getting laid off kicked me out of a job, that wasn't a great fit for me, culturally. I've never done super well, under the direction of someone else. Like, obviously, with this podcast and the way I run my business, I like to build my own stuff. But that doesn't mean that getting laid off wasn't still painful. It's really interesting. Like, even though the job wasn't a great fit, it still sucked to be pushed out not of my own volition. But it pushed me into this incredible life of freelancing where I had a lot more freedom. And I think I have never been the kind of person who's gonna follow someone else's strategic direction for a long time. Like I always am looking to do something new. But I'm not sure if I would have made this leap as quickly into freelancing had I not been pushed into it. So Wudan, I know you haven't been laid off. But I'm curious to get your thoughts about layoffs in media. Obviously, you haven't been laid off, because you've been freelancing for a long time. But I would love to hear how you think about this in the broader landscape of media, because honestly, it does feel like every week, a colleague we know is getting pushed out of a full time staff job.

Wudan Yan- Yeah, that frequency sounds about right. And you're also correct that I've never, ever been laid off. So either my summer break was up when I was in high school, or I got another job and I put in my notice. Or in the context of grad school, which was also a job, I straight up quit. I even was the one who pulled the strings on my tutoring job when I first started ramping up my journalism. And I'm not sure this is a good thing. I truly believe that uncomfortable moments caused us to grow as terrible and anxious as they may feel in the moment. And I kind of always joke that if I stay freelancing forever, I will never have to get laid off.

Jenni Gritters- I know. This is what I mean, when I say it's a rite of passage. Like, there are definitely some good things about having life push you to shake stuff up.

Wudan Yan- Yes, definitely. And I'm also into the idea of not having work being the thing that shakes you up. But I will say I've been in this industry for eight, nine years now, watching people I know get laid off, it sucks, and it feels inevitable. And I think it's the expectation that we have. Like we expect our full time jobs to be so much more stable. But we know that if we just have one client while we freelance, it can put us in a really tight bind. So I think the mindset we have a around full time job in media perhaps needs to shift, maybe in order for us to stay sane. A lot of these cases these full time jobs, aren't permanent. They feel like kind of like freely Seeing something you do for a while because it's interesting, but not something we can count on them for being around for 10/15 years in a way that journalism jobs or even publishers are sometimes portrayed in older popular culture. And the important thing I think to remind ourselves of is that reporters are really nimble, we are constantly switching stories, topic areas, on the regular and so jumping from a full time jobs at freelancing or to another full time job also requires that same nimbleness. But I mean, overall, it sucks, and it feels inevitable. And the stats are pretty depressing.

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, PEW does a lot of good research on this. And the stats are really striking. A couple of them that I've seen lately is a third of large newspapers laid people off in 2020, which was more than in 2019. So a third. This is why we feel like, especially on social media, it's like every other week, someone's getting laid off. Obviously, it was a tough year with the pandemic. But I also think we're seeing a centralization of jobs and freelancing, of people moving to freelancing and walking away from full time jobs, because freelancing feels almost more stable. But this has also been going on for a while. And journalism, I will say, like between 2008 and 2014, the PEW analysis and research shows that the number of newsroom employees dropped to 90,000, which was 24,000 jobs lost. Like that is a lot of jobs. I always say to people, like when you're trying to get a full time job, remember how many people are competing against you, because there really just aren't that many jobs that exist. So most of those 24,000 jobs lost didn't come back. And that's why when you're applying for full time jobs, you are competing against a lot of people. It's true you are, but a lot of those jobs have been replaced with freelance work.

Wudan Yan- 90,000 jobs, just want that figure to sink in for a second.

Jenni Gritters- I know and you think about the number of people who want to do this, like, of course, it's tough when you're applying for something full time. So what I thought we could do today Wudan, first, is just talk about some of the common challenges that someone might experience when they get laid off. Because I imagine that a lot of people are going to come to this episode having just been laid off or wanting to help a friend who's just been laid off or trying to process an experience. So a lot of us feel really alone in the emotions and experience of being laid off. But like I said, at this point, it is almost a rite of passage in journalism or media. Like if you have a full time job, the likelihood of restructuring is pretty high. So when I was working on scripting this episode, I posted on Twitter asking people about their biggest layoff challenges and also their wins. They pulled together a list. So let's talk through that first, Wudan.

Wudan Yan- I love it. So what came up?

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, a lot of people mentioned anxiety, depression and fear surfacing after they've been laid off. And this makes a ton of sense. I think layoffs really trigger especially, like I said for me, a lot of self critical feelings. Because most of the time we worry about why we were the ones picked to be laid off. I mean, I literally spent hours and hours and hours spiraling on the question of why me? What did I do? Like, was I to "fill in the blank": too ambitious, too talkative, was I working too fast? You know, that triggered a lot of anxiety. And honestly, that is more about my personal psychology than it is about the job itself. Those are insecurities that I have. And especially I want to say if you have a pre-existing mental health condition, like I do have, I have generalized anxiety disorder, of course, then the natural place that you would go and something like this happens is anxiety. Makes a ton of sense.

Wudan Yan- And lots of other people mentioned self doubt which I think you're getting out too, Jenni. This fear that you did something wrong and didn't see it coming. It's like, Can I trust myself now that this thing happened? And I was blindsided?

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, I will say too, that for a lot of people I work with who've been laid off their job wasn't a good fit for them, kind of like I described with me, right? Like, there's just a mismatch there in terms of values or interest. And your manager may have seen that. And so I think that's where people get stuck, like, Okay, I didn't love this, maybe I wasn't putting my all into it. Maybe I have some part to play in this, which I would argue, Of course, we have a small part to play in this. But largely, it's probably not about you. But you wonder maybe if I tried harder, maybe if I liked the job more, maybe I wouldn't have been the one to go.

Wudan Yan- There's this cocktail of anger, like of unfairness and sadness and grief and losing the job. And then maybe also some fear of the future as well, because now things feel a little more uncertain.

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, I always talk to people about how to process anger during this layoff situation, because so many of us are scared of anger. And then we don't process it and it just like festers and we get stuck in it. So sometimes you have to like break a plate or yell into a pillow or something to actually physically express that anger. Wudan, you and I have talked a lot about the cycle of experiencing emotions. And I would love to hear you talk about it a little bit. I think if I remember it right, this idea first came up for you in the book Burnout.

Wudan Yan- Yeah, actually the other day, I suggested for my husband to very uncharacteristically scream into a pillow, which he hilariously did. We will drop a link in our show notes to Burnout. The book is obviously accurate, as advertised. The authors Amelia and Emily Nagoski talk about burnout as a cycle, which means that you feel cues that you're burnt out, and then you got to extinguish that flame, because that energy needs to go somewhere. So some suggestions they come up with are like, a long hug, or, you know, with your partner, not a random person off the street, a 10 second kiss, a kickboxing session, a long run, you just gotta get through all the emotions. And anger I think about very similarly. I think adults have probably experienced something through the course of our lives, that amounts to us ultimately suppressing it, and that causing a lot of issues, which is why I told my husband to scream into a pillow. But Jenni, I'm sure this is very resonant to you as a parent, right? Like, if you watch a kid get angry, they're gonna have a temper tantrum. And when the tantrum is over, they release their energy and things are hopefully, better. You gotta let the emotions run their course.

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this is like full toddler 101, right? They're just like these emotional cocktails. But it's been interesting for me to watch. You can't sit there and like, try to talk them out of the emotion when they're in the middle of it. You're just like, oh, you seem mad. That makes sense. And then they yell, and then it's over. So I think that basically, to me, I read this as the emotion ends sooner if we actually process it, and there's a lot more stress that comes with dwelling on it. It's sort of like this cyclical thing. The more anxious, you are about being anxious, it never gets processed. But if you're processing that anxiety, it's going to end sooner. So Wudan, what other challenges do we have on the list that people shared with being laid off?

Wudan Yan- One big thing, which is come up on our episodes, and one that I wrote about lately is loss of identity. So if your identity is tied to your job, it can also feel like you lose yourself when you lose the job.

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, especially if you've had this job for a while. So when it comes to journalism, I definitely think there's this unhealthy tie between the industry and people's identity. Like if I'm not a journalist, what even am I?

Wudan Yan- Yes, and lots of reporters follow beats that they are genuinely interested in or identify with, such as you know, gender, and equity reporters, and your name is literally attached to your work all the time. If you're inherently curious, it's really easy to see journalism as an extension of who you are. And I wrote about this, because I really struggled with it during the last year and some change, and ultimately discovered that when I think about me as a human doing things in the world, and why and what drove me to do those things, it brought me a lot closer to my true identity, rather than just some job title that, you know, society has assigned us. So I elaborate on this in my Poynter piece, which I will drop in the shownotes.

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, it's such a good one. And I think along with this moment of personal crisis, and probably existential crisis, when you get laid off, there's also a fear of logistics that comes after that. Fear about how you're going to make money, or what will you say to people at a dinner party when they ask you what you do for work, right? How are you going to get health insurance. Hopefully, if you get laid off, you get severance, but that is not always the case, especially in media, depending on where you work. And it can be really scary. And so I think this can lead to what I was doing, which is panic, applying to a million jobs that aren't a good fit. This is a totally natural response. But I also think it's a bandaid, because you're just gonna get yourself back in the situation that you were in before at a precarious media job where you don't have that much trust in the organization. And believe me, after you've been laid off once, like lack of trust is huge. You're gonna be unhappy. So I think at this point, it does make sense to process and like do some soul searching. So I'm going to talk about that a little later. But I also think this brings me to a final thing, which is that people said one big challenge was that a lot of us despite having our identities tied to this industry, start to doubt the industry itself after being laid off.

Wudan Yan- That totally makes sense. We, the both of us get a lot of folks in coaching who have been reporters for years, but come to us because they want to develop other arms of their business or life, such as working for commercial clients because it feels safer. Not to mention, it pays better.

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, I definitely feel safer freelancing than I do in a full time job, which is really interesting, like not what you would expect. And I can say that when I got laid off, I also went through about three months of serious confusion about what to trust and who I wanted to be. I was like, maybe I want to be a teacher. Maybe I'll be a librarian. Or then I looked at being a writer at a corporate job. I looked at doing philanthropy work, anything that wasn't tied to this volatile industry. In retrospect, I was really looking for something that was stable. So I did a lot of informational interviews, I talked to a lot of people to try to establish whether I was just kind of doing the grass is greener thing like, is journalism actually worse than some of these other fields?

Wudan Yan- Definitely. And this is a good time to start thinking about values, right?

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, totally. So that comes from the process, I went through post layoff. You know, we talk a lot about values. And that's because this is part of what I did after getting laid off, I needed to figure out what I cared about. And I'm not sure I knew because I had sort of been taking on journalism's values as my own. So I needed to do a lot of soul searching about what I actually cared about, what felt authentic to me. And then I would try to match that up against some jobs, like a librarian or corporate writer and ask, Are these jobs going to fulfill my values? Versus the question of just like, am I going to like this job? Or would I be good at it because there were jobs out there that I would be good at or I might like for a little while, but I don't think would have been long-term sustainable. So this is an interesting measurement system that I think asking about values gets you to something that's a little more sustainable, long term. So I'm going to link here to the book that I read that I think I've recommended, even in our first episode, called the New World of Work, and it is a really good book. It walks you through this values process. And then we also do some values work in our business planning workbook, which again, I would link to here. If you've just been laid off, and you really want to think about freelancing, it's definitely a good place to start.

Wudan Yan- On the other side, you also asked people the good parts of getting laid off.

Jenni Gritters- Yes, I did. Which, you know, I know it might seem counterintuitive to be like, there are good things about being laid off. But people said a lot of really cool things. There are some hopeful and really positive things that come from getting things shaken up. So you tell me, Wudan: where should we start with that list of good things?

Wudan Yan- I personally loved hearing that it made people plan for the future and build their own stability, their own life raft. A lot of folks mentioned having an exit strategy financially, we've heard this called the fuck you fund, but it's just a you know, expletive term for a savings account that has a few months of fallback money in it. So you never have to make decisions in a panic if you need to leave your job or get laid off.

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, totally. It's so real that it helps mentally to know that you have this kind of fund. So if this ever happens again, you'll be okay. What else was on that good list?

Wudan Yan- Yeah. So people also mentioned that layoffs taught them to keep their LinkedIn updated and broaden their network, even when they were employed in a full time job just to be ready in this industry, because you never really know what will happen.

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, for sure. I also loved a lot of people said that getting laid off was a blessing in disguise, I definitely feel that way. Because it pushed them out of a job that wasn't a good fit. And they ended up freelancing, or in a job with a lot more freedom. So many people said that they got laid off, so they started their own business. They got laid off. So they did the soul searching and they launched their own company. Honestly, it's hard to start your home business when you're really comfortable at a job. This is like a situation of the misery you know, sometimes we call this the golden handcuffs. You're comfortable. And it's hard to leave even though you might want to start freelancing or you might want to launch your own business. Sometimes a layoff can be the kick in the butt that we need to get us to go out on our own and create something new and better.

Wudan Yan- Yeah, people said that they realized how many skills they had. And they developed new confidence and resilience after they survived a layoff.

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, confidence is a muscle that's built in getting laid off is like a ridiculous session at the gym, right? It's like heavy weights. And I saw a lot of people saying that to also talking about how they started to untie their identity from work. Because, you know, like we're saying, maybe you don't feel like you can tie your wagon to, you know, this sort of ship anymore. And people started to identify and develop an identity and self worth that was more based on who they are than what they did. Now that work feels less reliable. And that is a huge, powerful shift towards control in your life.

Wudan Yan- Super, super powerful. So, Jenni, I've heard you coach people through a layoff before and it often sounds like walking through the stages of grief to me. So can you describe that process?

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, I think this has four steps. It's like a four step stages of grief process to surviving a layoff. Because I do think of a layoff as sort of a death of your career or maybe just a breakup in your career, depending on how it feels to you. Obviously, a breakup can be really painful, and a death causes a lot of grief. So the first step is what we were talking about. Be mad, be sad, have all these emotions. It's actual grief. Like it's real grief. You just lost a huge part of your life. And you often had no choice in the matter. That is really complicated. So you need to feel your emotions. It's like what we were talking about Wudan with, you know, Max punching a pillow. You need to do that before you can move to acceptance and action. A lot of times I see people jump to acceptance in action really quickly, because they would prefer that. But like, sorry, y'all, you gotta feel all that like crappy stuff too, because you won't move on until you do.

Wudan Yan- What recommendations do you have on how to process these feelings?

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, it's like what we were talking about before. So for me, it's exercise, moving my body and reflecting in a journal. So when I got laid off, I was really surprised by the amount of anger I had. And on recommendation for my therapist, I went to one of those break rooms where you pay, and you get a baseball bat and you get to break dishes. I have to say, as a person who comes from a family where anger is not allowed, it was so cathartic. I also did a lot of crying. In those weeks following the layoff, I was mad, I punched pillows, I actually still do that when I'm angry, and I teach my toddler to stomp his feet and punch a pillow because it feels good to get that out of your body. I'm not a big crier, I should say either. But like I cried a lot after this layoff. So I think there's two parts of this, like, get it out of your body. For me that's with physical movement, and then write it down, sort of identify what those motions are. So Wudan, what about you? How do you process big emotions?

Wudan Yan- Thank you for reminding me about that break room? Because I'm pretty sure it's extremely close to where I live.

Jenni Gritters- Yes, it is.

Wudan Yan- And I've not taken advantage of it. So processing for me means going out in the woods and doing something extremely aggressive to my body. So whether that's an insanely long or steep trail, sometimes for the 2020 election, I drove to the Oregon coast and screamed into the ocean. Catharsis is great.

Jenni Gritters- Yup it really is. So next, after we process these emotions, there are some level of resigned acceptance for most people. So you're kind of rationalizing what happens. And in this phase, most of us are telling the story of what happened to other people. So you can talk about the event with a little bit less emotions. You're like, this is the factual account of what happened to me, it was bad. I would say this is a very reflective phase. But it can be really cathartic to put this story in the context of your larger career story. It's less emotionally charged, it's more about sort of processing and integrating this into your story. Like okay, this is the hand I was dealt.

Wudan Yan- Definitely, I think that's a good reason to process the emotion so you can get to this part. And one way that I talk to clients, about things that happened to them that were hard, was to write it in third person to make yourself a little more detached from what actually happened.

Jenni Gritters- Totally. And we know too, from research that making meaning from an event is what keeps it from being long term traumatic for you. So I love that idea of the third person writing because you can sort of tell your story, integrate it into the bigger picture, right? Like kind of like the way I told you the story in the beginning of this episode of my layoff. It feels cathartic to tell it that way now. So after these two phases, which are arguably like little more ambiguous and emotional, then people usually want to move into a phase of exploration. So this phase, I would say, feels chaotic, but also exciting. So it's like being on this teeter totter of excitement and fear. There's just a lot of newness, you're asking what's next for me? And that means that you usually need to take some of your ideas, a few steps down the road, like, Okay, you're applying for jobs, you're networking, you're doing informational interviews, you're reading books, you're doing online research, you're scoping out what's next, you're asking what your values are, you're trying to figure out what types of jobs you might want. Again, if you don't let yourself feel the emotions, I think you just jump into applying for the same kinds of jobs out of fear right away, and you actually sort of skip over this exploration phase. But for most people, this phase is really necessary so that you don't make the same mistakes again, and get yourself in the same situation.

Wudan Yan- Yeah, and all of this is up to you. But it also means, you know, integrate the new learnings from being laid off like this might change things for you in an interesting way.

Jenni Gritters- Exactly, right. Like cool things can come from being laid off. So although it's not really a welcome moment, for most of us, because it feels like you're like putting new soil under your feet, it's really good to reevaluate what you want, and what you need, and to make sure you're going in the career direction that you actually want. So I would say even if it means taking a few little freelance gigs to keep you afloat, if you didn't get severance, make time for exploration, confirm that you want to go down this road.

Wudan Yan- Definitely. So Jenni, what's after that?

Jenni Gritters- The last step is to make some decisions about your direction. So for me that was I want to be a freelance business owner and do some writing and editing work. I'm gonna try this for three months. During this fourth and final phase, you're really putting the pieces into place to play the game. This is action. And like, I feel like for most of us, this feels really good. This is like to do lists and execution.

Wudan Yan- This is usually the phase where people come to us wanting to get coached, right? They decide I want this and they're ready to dive in. And they want help and accountability.

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, I would say the TWC Slack channel is like full of people at this stage. Right? It's like they're coming in and they're like, I've decided to do this thing, and it's really creative. It's really scary. It's really good all at once. There's a lot of momentum behind this action phase.

Wudan Yan- So at this point, would we consider the layoffs cycle, if you will, complete?

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, I think so although there is some work to be done to integrate a layoff into your story long term, like to figure out how to talk about it publicly, when you say, Hey, I'm deciding to go on this new career path, I need your help. And you're saying this to your friends and family and your your networks, you have to figure out how to talk about the layoff. So that is sort of a final step here. It's like going public with this internal process you've just been doing. But we are going to include a survival guide, actually, to being laid off in this week's episode notes for Patreon members. And then if you're not a Patreon member, we'll also put that worksheet on our website and link to it in the show notes. Part of the process of this is talking about your story, and we're gonna have you write that up, and you'll end up using it eventually for sure.

Wudan Yan- It's interesting that you mentioned talking about a layoff publicly, because with the bird app, I think people try and do that immediately, like updating us in real time. It is a little interesting. Let's leave it at that. So anything else to add about layoffs, Jenni?

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, I think last but not least, I just want to say again, even though I've kind of talked around this for a little while, in this episode, there's no shame in being laid off. Like usually it is a business decision, and it has very little to do with you. So this isn't your fault. If you've just been laid off, you shouldn't feel ashamed to talk about this as part of your story. But I do think it's really important to integrate it in some way and make some meaning from it.

Wudan Yan- Definitely, like we said, I think almost everyone we know in media has been laid off at least once.

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, in a shifting industry like ours, it's just honestly like a real shit sandwich part of the job, you know? So if you're in the midst of this right now, you're not alone. Take heart in that, that there are a lot of us around you who are probably feeling or have felt the same way you do if you've just been laid off.

Wudan Yan- So in summary, if this episode resonates with you, because you've been laid off, the first thing to do is process your emotions in whatever way that feels best for you in a way that releases energy. process it with a colleague that may have gone through the same with a friend outside of the industry for perspective with your therapist or third party. There is no timeline for grief, just a reminder, there's no timeline for processing. Use your own time.

Jenni Gritters- Yeah, a lot of times I get people who come to me wanting to start their business, and I'm like, go take two months. Go take two months and feel this stuff and then come back to me and then we'll build because that phase matters. So once you have done some of that processing, talk about your story, lay out the facts, do some work to integrate it a little bit. And then it's time to start that process of thinking a new identifying your values, it's a really good place to start. list those out that'll be in the worksheet that we have along with this episode. And it's also in our business planning worksheets. And then you're gonna start thinking about logistics. Last but not least money, healthcare, business, planning, structure, all of that. That's what comes last.

Wudan Yan- The sucky feelings pass. And if you've been laid off, definitely reach out to us by email. We've done this before and do it every other month quarter, which is giving y'all a discount for our resources.

Jenni Gritters- For sure. Email us we'll share the discount code for our store, online business planning resources. We really like to help people who are in the situation. I feel passionate about that since I've been there. And I wish I had a lot of these resources when I was there. And I just want to say too, as someone who is on the other side this, too shall pass. It is painful when you're in the midst of it, but I do think you may come out of it even stronger.

Wudan Yan- Well Jenni, it's been fun this season.

Jenni Gritters- Yes, it has as always. So I will see you, Wudan, for our Secret Episode in just a few weeks.

Wudan Yan- Yes, I am excited for that. So remember to become a patreon member at patreon.com/TWCpod now so you will get that episode in your inbox right away.

Jenni Gritters- Yep. And we will be around throughout the spring like we said, so I will talk to you soon.

Wudan Yan- Bye, Jenni.

Jenni Gritters- Bye Wudan.

Wudan Yan- Season Four of The Writers' Co-Op is made possible by you, our listeners. The Writers' Co-Op is co-hosted and written by me, Wudan Yan and Jenni Gritters. Our producer is Jen Monnier and our editor is Susan Valot.