Building Relationships
EPISODE 6:
Making connections with other writers, editors and creatives is essential to building a freelance business that lasts throughout the years. When a gig ends or a client runs out of budget, having a strong network can give you a starting point for finding new work. But we know that networking can be challenging, too. It often feels forced or inauthentic, and it can be tough to know where to start with building a network if you don't think you have one already. (Chances are, you do. But we'll get to that.)
In this episode, Jenni and Wudan talk about relationship building, how to make connections without feeling gross, and the best ways (and worst ways) to reach out to someone you respect. They share stories of networking gone right and wrong, give insider tips for chasing down editors, and offer thoughts on what to say if you're sending someone a cold email asking for help.
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Full Transcript Below:
W- Welcome to the Writers’ Co-op! A business podcast for freelance writers everywhere
J- We are your co-hosts; I’m Jenni Gritters
W- and I’m Wudan Yan
J- This week on the show, we’re going to talk all about networking: how to build relationships with your colleagues and new editors without feeling sleazy…
W- … which ultimately helps you build your career so you can one day pay that forward.
J- Where should we start?
W- Phew, well there is so much to unpack. I mean, first of all, I just want to say that I think “networking” -- which, from now on out, I will be referring to as “relationship building” as much as possible -- is probably the most important soft skill you’ll need to build a robust freelance business.
J- Agree.
W- We should start with storytime
J- … as we always do.
W- Jenni, when you were just starting out in this field, what was your first attempt at ‘networking’ with someone who knew more -- and how did you actually ask for their help?
J- So when I was in college, I was trained by the people in career services to reach out to alumni who were working in the fields I was interested in. I did a lot of sending emails to those folks, asking to chat on the phone with them for 30 minutes. And it worked most of the time, in that I learned a lot about potential career paths. I don’t think it led to jobs at that point, but it made me realize that I wanted to be a journalist, not a therapist, and not a teacher. I’m still a very big fan of informational interviewing when you’re at a point in your life when you might want to make a shift. Talk to people about what worked for them, and why.
Specifically, I think my first successful networking attempt happened after graduate school. I was running a narrative journalism conference in Boston which meant I was interacting with people who were WAY cooler and more advanced in their careers than I was. I helped them design their conference sessions and managed logistics. As a result, I ended up with points of contact with these people. I followed most of them on Twitter, and kept an eye on what they were doing. And I’d see when they posted jobs.
This happened with my old boss, Amy O’Leary. I helped her with some sessions at the conference and also got a chance to chat with her a few times between sessions. I remember going up to talk with her after a panel she was on, and feeling so thankful that she was willing to answer my novice questions. I followed her on social media after the conference, and saw that she was looking for an assistant. She’d just left the New York Times and was running the editorial program at Upworthy, and she wanted a journalist to come on board to help her build a new way of working at the company. She promised mentorship and support along with the role, and I jumped at the opportunity. I emailed her and within a week, I’d interviewed and I had a job offer. If I hadn’t worked with Amy during the narrative conference and kept in touch on social media, or at least kept track of what she was doing, I wouldn’t have gotten that job. Within 8 months, I was running the freelance program at Upworthy and she’d promoted me to an editor role.
W- Wow! I mean, that’s a testament to how you never know what connections might open doors; and if you see an opportunity that might be suitable, jump on it!
J- Totally
W- But to backtrack one sec, you said that you’d ask people to talk for 30 min? Would you say that explicitly in your emails?
J- Yes, I always asked for something specific in those emails: A phone call for 30 minutes with a fellow Bucknell graduate to discuss [fill in the blank]. It usually worked! Even after I got laid off from Wirecutter and had a full-on career crisis, i interviewed a lot of people about their careers and i asked for the same thing. Come to think of it, I also set up interviews for stories im reporting in the same way. It’s a proven strategy.
Wudan, what about you?
W- I feel like I owe my career to Brooke Borel. Like, when I was just starting to really entertain the idea of leaving grad school to pursue journalism, but didn’t want to go to a masters program. A friend of mine from college mentioned that she had interned at Popular Science for a summer -- I had no idea that my friend did this! but she was like “oh, you should talk to Brooke, I’ll put you in touch.”
I actually looked up my email to Brooke. This is what I said: “My name is Wudan, and we’ve met twice briefly at the Story Collider events. (Last time, I was there with -- our mutual contact -- I'm currently a grad student at Sloan Kettering (in their Cancer Biology program), and will be leaving in approximately two months after I complete my Masters. --- which obviously didn’t happen -- I'm quite interested in pursuing science writing, and was wondering what advice you would have on pursuing it from a more unconventional route (i.e.: not going to journalism school). A few months ago, I started a blog (I included a hyperlink) with the intention of making novel, exciting findings in the life sciences more understandable to the general public.
I heard you're editing your book now, so I can imagine the next few weeks being busy for you, but if you're interested in talking over the phone / Skype or meeting up in person over coffee after that, I'd appreciate it greatly. Please let me know what would work best, and I look forward to hearing from you.”
So Brooke got back to me, and we got wine and cheese in lower Manhattan, and it was so incredibly eye opening and helpful. And we’ve gotten to maintain that relationship over the years when we see each other at conferences. Brooke has introduced me to tons of people who have needed fact-checking help.
J- that’s so nice, and it’s so similar to my experience with Amy! Amy is one of those people who is really interested in helping women come up in media, and she introduced me to so many great people. Finding people like that is really invaluable. My other mentor was Mark Kramer, and he’s the same way; he ran the narrative journalism conference in Boston, and he was a tireless advocate for me during the beginning of my career. Anyone he knew, I could also know by proxy.
I’m curious, Wudan: We get a lot of these “can you give me advice” emails now that we’re further along in our careers. What made that email to Brooke work, do you think?
W- I think that email worked because I pointed to a personal connection, I specified what i was looking for, and I showed that I was mindful of her time.
J- Totally, those are good ingredients to have in an email or Twitter DM, or what have you, when you’re reaching out.
W- I think we both pointed to examples of networking done right, but I wonder if it’s valuable, too, to talk about some examples of what not to do.
J- Yeah, for sure. Want to start?
W- Yeah. Over the years, like you said, Jenni, I’ve gotten lots of requests from strangers -- and I feel like we should make this clear on networking: we’re not talking about asking our friends for help, I think that’s entirely different. I’m talking about networking, where people approach you and you don’t know them. Some of the requests I get have been to “pick your brain about freelancing.” Once I got a message from someone who had trouble pitching publications and upfront asked me for a list of publications within their beat area and editor contacts. What about you, Jenni?
J- I also get these emails a lot. Specifically, I get dozens of people i dont know trying to connect with me on linkedin, then asking me if i can introduce them to people i know. I get pretty frustrated by that, because I can’t vouch for someone i dont know! And I get a lot of inquiries from people who just generally “want to hear about my career.” Super nice, but I don’t have the time to chat with all those people, unfortunately.
The big no nos for me are: Trying to get help with connections when I don’t know you, because I can only connect you if I can attest to the fact that you’re a good worker. Asking me to do work for you, like to find editor emails that are generally available. And making really vague asks, where I can tell you’re just reaching out because you think you should, not because you’re actually interested in something specific.
To be clear, I love to mentor people and help others succeed in freelancing. LOVE IT. But there’s a way to reach out, and the things above are red flags for me.
W- Yes. I also get lots of questions from folks who want to hear about how I’ve made it work - which I’ve written about. It’s public information and it’s easily findable on google search.
In short, I feel like the take-aways here are, when reaching out to someone, tell them why:
-you met them at an event
-you read something about their work
- you have a mutual friend, a previous mutual employer, school, hometown
- someone specifically recommended you to contact them
J- Yep, it’s that mutual contact. This is why I always tell people to think about who they know and start there. Who can connect you to their friends? That’s going to work a lot better than reaching out to someone randomly.
Then, in that message, explain what it is you’re hoping to get from their conversation. The more specific the possible
W- I will say, I get many many requests from folks and almost my baseline requirement is, “do I want to be friends with this person? Can I see myself just getting a beer with them and talking shop or about life?”
J- Yes, I think it’s important to remember to be a human first, even if you’re asking for help. Wudan is super good at this, I think you become friends with folks in a genuine way, because you like people… and then you also end up helping each other down the line. It’s not just shmoozing for the sake of it.
W- Also, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to make a relationship first before then launching into the bigger asks. I was talking with Karen Ho - former freelancer but now a staffer at Quartz, who basically said, “don’t ask me for my immigration lawyer’s contact info if we have never chatted before!”
J- Oh my god
W- Yeah, so start low, work your way up to the bigger asks later once you know the person.
J- Here’s a good one: When do you know you should try and pay someone for their time?
W- Yeah, good question, since both of us run coaching and consulting businesses on the side. I’ll answer for myself. I’ll look at someone’s message and see that it’ll take more than two minutes for me to answer, I’ll suggest them book time with me. If their question takes then less than two minutes to answer, I’m super happy to type something up real fast. I even kind of say, “Thanks for reaching out! Here’s my two minute, off the cuff response!”
I want to be helpful, but I also need to know at what point is it going to cut too significantly into the time I usually need to research, report, write?
Any other thoughts on that?
J- I take a similar strategy. If I can provide you with some good insight real quick, I’m happy to. If I can tweet about it or put it on instagram so other people can also benefit from it, even better. But if you’re dealing with something that requires strategic guidance, and it’s going to take a conversation to answer, I’ll usually ask you to book a coaching session. The exception of that is for students, who i’m usually willing to chat with for free. I also have a bunch of blogs on medium about how i got started and how i spend my days, so I’ll direct people there a lot, too. My days are so full right now that i usually dont have unpaid time to spare, unfortunately.
W- Yeah. I do on very rare occasions chat with people for free, but for me, usually there’s the tradeoff of having a conversation with them very soon if they can pay for a coaching session, or if they can wait a few weeks before my schedule cools off-- and I can take a breather and feel good on my own schedule talking to them for free.
Next, while we’re talking about making these initial connections, I wanted to talk about conferences and professional societies. Jenni, what value, if any, have you found from these?
J- Like I said, a lot of my initial connections in journalism came from working at that narrative journalism conference in Boston. It was a huge boon for starting my career, and I think big events like that are especially useful for making connections if you’re just starting out as a freelance writer. Where can you go to find people to model your career after? Where can you go to meet other people who are also just starting out, like you?
I’ll say this, though: I’m a natural introvert so being part of events honestly stresses me out. I’m less apt to attend an event and more apt to connect with people I’ve worked with in the past, and ask them for help if I need it. I find a lot of job opportunities through professional society newsletters, too, so I do think those are worth it if the dues are inexpensive.
And then I’m pretty involved in my local Seattle community, both in the parenting community and the outdoor community, so I end up getting a lot of connections naturally based on how I spend my time. I write about both of these things, so it tends to work out in my favor but I don’t see it as career networking, necessarily.
What about you, Wudan?
W- I know as a freelancer that the cost of attending a conference can be prohibitive. With registration fees, hotels, flights, etc., you’re dumping about $1,000 into a 3 or 4 day affair that you likely won’t be able to work through. That’s a hard sell for many. But I’d encourage folks to look at grants that allow folks to attend conferences they haven’t before. Apply! The only surefire way to not get one of these grants is to not apply. I’ve gotten a grant to go to a data journalism conference, and I’ve also gotten one from a professional society for members attending their annual conference for the first time. They were really invaluable for the connections I’ve made.
J- Wudan is always finding grant money, it’s one of her secrets that she’s going to tell us more about in a future episode.
W- And even at conferences, I feel like the same rules apply. Don’t ask too much for someone’s time, it’s much better to just meet someone, have a nice conversation, ask for their card, and follow up afterwards.
J- Agreed. At events, I generally don’t ask people for things. I just chat with folks, and then I might look them up on social media. It’s nice to put a face to a name!
One final word on professional societies: join whatever local chapter of a writer’s or journalists’ group exists in your region. Usually the annual fees for joining are way lower, and it's’ a great way to meet a local community of writers. Those are really the only ones I’m part of.
W- Can’t agree more. The local science writers’ group in Seattle has been so insanely helpful for me. So after you’ve met folks, how do you like to maintain these connections, Jenni?
J- I typically just check in with how they’re doing from time to time. I’m one of those people who doesn’t go around meeting everyone, but I’m happy instead to stay in close touch with the people I do know. I send a lot of “how are you, just thinking of you” emails to former colleagues because I’m genuinely interested in how they are doing. I suppose sometimes this leads to work, but mostly it’s just nice to have a community of people around me who understand the media landscape. I do track LinkedIn a couple times each week and when I see that someone has a new job, I send them a congrats email! I also often send job opps to friends and colleagues for whom they might be a good fit. I’m always thinking about how I can use my connections to push other people’s careers forward, and I think in turn people do the same for me. It’s not a sneaky strategy, it’s just kinda how I operate in all my friendships.
Wudan, what about you? Do you use the internet to maintain connections?
W- I feel like Twitter is where all the riffing and dialogue happens. So many editors are very active on twitter. Re-tweeting, replying, commenting, or even just following someone is really helpful. I feel like it’s how I remind editors that I’m still alive, since we’re all still mostly sheltering-in-place and can’t travel to conferences or meet people. If my name is showing up in their twitter feeds consistently, then it is an easier sell when it’s time for me to pitch them.
J- Yes, getting your name in front of people generally helps with pitching. I know when I was editing at Upworthy, I followed a lot of my steady contributors on social media so I knew what they were up to and sometimes I even handed out assignments that way. If I liked working with someone, they entered my circle of trust in a way, so I’d keep track of how they were doing just like how I keep track of how my friends are doing. I still work with some of those people, or trade assignment or gig postings with them, even though I’m not their editor anymore!
W- I will say this again, because I’ve said it before and it’s worth mentioning: one of the best ways to continue the relationship between an editor is to keep pitching them. You can do that if you’re based in New York City, or if you’re living halfway across the world. The more you pitch, the more editors know what you like to write about, and are more likely to make an assignment down the road.
J- Totally. And no doesn’t mean never pitch again, it just means the story isn’t a good fit. Say that to yourself 10 times. No doesn’t mean never pitch again.
W- Yeah, I’m currently working with an editor who I love. She actually reached out to me months ago with an assignment that I couldn’t take at the time being, but she tried again after that. I did finally say yes, and since then, I’ll send her ideas that she passes on, I file my stories, she sends me edits, and she still asks if I can take assignments from time to time. I think as a freelancer, having someone say no to a pitch has nothing to do with you. And saying no to an editor doesn’t mean that it’s the end of the relationship, either!
J- Agree.
Speaking of building relationships with editors -- and maybe this isn’t something that can be done anywhere in the near future, thanks to social distancing - -but Wudan, you like to ask editors out to coffee. Want to say a little more about that?
W- Sure! Before coronavirus hit, and whenever I made a trip to New York City, I made a point of meeting editors at publications that I wanted to write for. My emails were always short and sweet, and I always sent them about 2 weeks in advance.of my visit. I feel like two weeks is the sweet spot because people don’t have so much foresight, but they also don’t want to be making last minute plans. My subject line basically says it all. It’s always something like: “Seattle-based journalist in NYC from DATE 1 to DATE 2: meet for coffee?” And in the body I introduce myself further, link to some recent work I’ve done (recent being in the last six months or so)
J- It’s bold, I love it. And if you’re an all access member, Wudan will toss in a template of this in our show notes. How did editors respond to this?
W- I’ve gotten mostly yeses. Sometimes I will have emailed someone who’s not the best fit to talk to a freelancer, but that person will then give me ideas as to who else to try.
J- And how have those meetings eventually led to assignments?
W- It’s a really mixed bag! Sometimes I’ll pitch them an idea that I glossed over during our coffee. I got my first story in Harper’s (online) after I met with an editor there. And a few months ago, that same editor reached out to me for help. With the many other pubs, I think I at least had a chance to get facetime with someone; they know how I think, and my name will just be a little more familiar to their inbox when I do hit them with a pitch. Everyone should go listen to Eva Holland’s Longform podcast, where she talks about something really similar. I swear I’m not the only person who does this!
J- That podcast was so good. I love how she talks about asking people to drink with her when she’s visiting. Because that’s honestly how a lot of this goes down-- just meeting up, chatting about careers and writing and journalism, and then you know the person so it’s easier to think about how you might work together. When I’ve done this, sometimes I end up writing for the person and sometimes I don’t! But it’s also just fun to get to know all the corners of this industry, and eventually maybe it’ll be a good time to work together.
Okay, so we’ve spent all this time talking about how to build relationships
W- … we’re really building up to the crux of it all.
J- Why are these relationships important?
W- Are we going to talk about coronavirus again
J- Ha, you saw this coming.
W- Jenni: how has having a strong net of relationships across the industry helped you during coronavirus?
J- Honestly, I think the biggest thing I have realized about coronavirus is how important my connections are. These people are helping me pay my bills. The editors I work with basically funded my maternity leave. THEY are a big reason why my business works. This might sound nuts, but after my first year of freelancing, I sent notes to my steady clients basically saying thank you for helping me build my dream career. I’m really careful to call out when a working relationship is good, to thank someone for responding quickly to me on pitches or being a straight shooter or paying me on time. It’s important to me to acknowledge when things are working.
All of that is to say that the people I work with have made this transition back to work during COVID-19 after maternity leave with an infant at home while being married to a healthcare worker… easier. It’s still hard, but networking in the past has born a lot of good fruit during this season.
For example, while I was on leave, an editor at Wirecutter reached out to let me know that she needed someone to cover a 3 month maternity leave on a PT basis. I’m doing that work now. She thought of me because we worked together before, because she knows I already know how to do the job. And even though I’ve had a few contracts canceled, those editors have connected me with other editors. One of my favorite clients told me that COVID has meant all her projects are paused, but she emailed ALL her colleagues to let them know that I’m available for work right now. Because of all that, I’m doing okay during a very scary time to be a freelancer.
W- It’s really impressive to come out of maternity leave as publications are closing their freelance budgets and to still find work.
J- Yeah, I’ve been feeling just really, really grateful for the leg work I put in before, and for all the wonderful people who have had my back. Because at the end of the day, networking is just about following up with other people in a caring, straight forward way. We’re all in this weird, messy situation together. Sounds corny, but it’s also felt really true this month.
Wudan, what about you?
W- I honestly had a banner month with coronavirus - largely in part owing to my existing relationships. I got some assignments from clients that I fact-check regularly for. Having so many relationships with editors across the board made it really easy for me to pitch. Knowing other reporters who could connect me with editors, too, has been really mission critical. You know, in some ways, coronavirus revealed how my business plan is pretty flimsy, if I can only guarantee a few thousand bucks from my regular fact-checking work, but in other ways, it reminded me that I knew a lot of people who could possibly solicit my help -- or I can ask for help.
J- Agreed, I think this is a time that makes it obvious how precarious freelancing is. It’s scary right now NOT to have a guaranteed income. But it’s also been a time where priorities and relationships have become crystal clear.
W- I know ‘relationship building’ sounds like such a soft mushy skill but I think it’s absolutely essential for running a robust freelance business - especially as things change so rapidly.
J- Agreed. We’re both very much into the idea of making connections over just trying to “connect” with people from a strategy perspective. Human to human. Especially now. And if you don’t have that network, I want to say that you can start now. Wudan, do you have recommendations for where people can start if they’re thinking, “But I DON’T know people!”
W- Talk to your friends and see who they might know! Also, I know we can’t buy each other drinks or coffees right now but maybe since our schedules ebb and flow so much you can get some time with a colleague you really admire on a Zoom call.
J- I often tell my coaching clients to find a few people whose careers you might want to emulate. Look at someone who’s a year or two ahead of you, on the trajectory. I did that when I started freelancing. Then look at someone who’s maybe 10 years ahead. Consider where they have been, and how you could maybe copy that in your own life. Maybe consider reaching out to them, too.
Also, I want to echo Wudan: think about who you ALREADY know. Who can connect you to someone else? You can sometimes use LinkedIn to see who you’re connected to via your friends or colleagues.
And finally, see if other people who’ve been laid off, or who are struggling, want to connect. A lot of people have time to chat right now. Can you create a pod of 5 other new freelancers, and share resources? Can you reach out to an editor who’s been laid off and ask for coaching?
W- A freelance pod! I love that. Anyway, I think we’ve covered it all for today. We are going to sign off, but please email or tweet at us with any questions or comments.
Until next episode!
J- See you on Zoom soon, Wudan
W- Bye Jenni!
